Meet the Fockers: Gen X, Family Dysfunction & People Pleasing

This week on Wicked Psychotherapists, Gen X psychotherapist Erin and her “Xennial” co-host Tanya (that sweet spot between Gen X and Millennial) dig into the hilarious emotional chaos of Meet the Parents and Meet the Fockers. Think: lie detectors, lost cats, ninth-place trophies — and a whole lot of family dysfunction.

Why do people-pleasers like Greg fall apart around controlling dads? How does being raised with too much or not enoughstructure shape anxiety, identity, and our adult relationships?

Erin and Tanya bring personal stories, therapist insights, and generational wisdom to this deep-yet-fun look at parenting styles, emotional boundaries, and surviving awkward family dynamics.

🎧 Whether you’re Gen X, Xennial, Millennial, or just someone who’s ever dreaded meeting the in-laws — you’ll relate.

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Transcript

0:01

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked

Tanya: 0:10

Hey it's Tanya.

Erin: 0:11

Hi, it's Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists. So this week we are,

Tanya: 0:17

we're veering off track from the Adam Sandler, ride, I guess. we're. going towards a few others. this is just a detour, but we are going to be talking about, a sequel of movies popular in the early two thousands. meet the parents, meet the Fs. Thought this would have some interesting family dynamics and themes to talk about.

Erin: 0:39

these are just pretty good movies. Pretty funny. I did

Tanya: 0:41

I've seen meet the Fs quite a few times too, but I did not, I kind of just went through some clips. So, I'm trying to maybe yeah have to kind of think of

Erin: 0:50

I think that's why we decided to combine before, because so often, when you think of one of the movies, you think of the other. And it just kind of meshes together so this way we can talk about both parents and everything and it's just makes it a little bit more, you know, congruent

Tanya: 1:10

we start out, we meet one of the main characters, Greg Ben Stiller, whose full name is Gaylord, which does not help him in the situations he gets in. he's a nurse or a male nurse. As, people keep referring to him as, but he is wanting to propose to his girlfriend gonna go meet. Comes to realize that her dad is a special type of character, I guess. he's very controlling, very suspicious. Kind of trying to interrogate him from the start. Greg is just trying to please him. he is very anxious. Very eager to please around, Jack Pam's father. the family's preparing for, Pam's sister's wedding. Greg is invited to that. So there's a lot of kind of tensions and, you know, things that are needing to be planned. A lot of family events. And, Jack kind of is talking about. Well, you know, to be in the family, you have to everything stays in the family circle. once you're in, you can't go out. It's very much like, like, you know, us against the world in my family. Yeah. he's a control freak for sure. He's got some control issues. but yeah. What was your impression of the dad who's played by

Erin: 2:23

Probably as somebody coming into the family, like anyone who's first gone into meeting your significant other's family member, you're very intimidated. So he really wanted to put that like, all right, I'm gonna put it on the Upteam degree and Belittle your profession and just really make Greg question himself and feel probably even more anxious. It was probably very intimidating having your girlfriend's father first meeting his, it just was not a good experience. Yeah, he was putting him through the ringer for sure.

Tanya: 2:57

He was really trying to, Make him put him down

Erin: 3:00

would

Tanya: 3:00

call him a hassle. Because he kept calling directly, you know, like the male

Erin: 3:03

nurse me and you know, just, yeah, no, it definitely didn't respect his profession. Didn't really want him. You know, dating his daughter, it's just really wasn't a good thing. No one was good enough for his Pam. You can tell Pam

Tanya: 3:17

was his kind of golden child and, not to mention the bar is set and possibly high and here's. Greg seemingly just a very nice caring guy, but he's an anxious guy and he makes mistakes and that's just not acceptable to Jack. And also when he's,

Erin: 3:35

have you ever had experience hearing him between past boyfriends and everything too? It's, really difficult. Oh yeah. The past fiance, that's like

Tanya: 3:44

utterly perfect. And he's very much just making him feel insecure and it's working because Greg does not have a high level of self-confidence. Feel like he needs to be accepted and he just is noticing that this guy's giving him the third degree constantly. so he is just trying to pass every test, which is really funny. But at the same point, you feel for the guy. but yeah, I was wondering, have you ever had an experience where you had to meet, parents or friends' parents who were just really intimidating? Well,

Erin: 4:13

I don't know. I often wonder like if my dad was that person, like two people, like when they first meet him.'cause he was like a lifer marine, you know, just very, you know, always still got the short and neat haircut. Just recently, he, I think he goes every three weeks instead of every two weeks. It's just very, you know, he is an intimidating guy. especially when I was younger, he is really tall. like six foot something, very in shape. he was a Marine, it's all about him, so. I imagine that some people, when they first meet my dad, it was probably similar to that. Like, oh my God, who is this fellow? Yeah. I could definitely see that. Yeah, for sure.

Tanya: 4:52

Yeah. And yeah, it can be tough. I don't know that I've had an experience with that. I definitely felt with my in-laws, it was just more of an overwhelm because I was meeting a lot of his Portuguese family. Sometimes there's a language barrier. There's just a lot of them, they like to gather a lot and there's a lot of'em, lots of food. Lots of. talking and stuff. So that can be just a lot at first. But

Erin: 5:14

I don't think anybody was thinking too intimidating because you mentioned friends too. I remember some friends' parents just meeting them for the first time and being nervous. But I think that's normal, when you're a teenager, I definitely didn't feel intimidated by my husband's family. I felt welcome, But yeah, I do wonder how my dad was perceived by friends and family when they first met him. Yeah. Military people can definitely, yeah, especially marine. Maybe give off a vibe just

Tanya: 5:37

because,

Erin: 5:37

you know.

Tanya: 5:38

Yeah. That can be intense. we learned that Jack is, you know, he's not coming out and saying it because it's kind of a family secret that he was a former CIA operative and Greg starts to suspect he's still running operations. And he is, but he's kind of just, you know, running operations on like getting.

Erin: 5:56

Yeah,

Tanya: 5:56

a honeymoon set up for his other daughter, Debbie, the one that's getting married and speaking in Thai. And also just watching Greg, so giving him the, what was it? The, lie detector. Yeah. Lie detector test or whatever. Very intense.

Erin: 6:09

Yeah.

Tanya: 6:10

Oh yeah, that's in the trailer the camper. It was like a built-in, like underneath something like it kind of raised up and went off. that made me so claustrophobic when I saw that. So like, goes into the floor,

Erin: 6:20

this is where I live forever. Yeah. I think Jack did a good job of

Tanya: 6:24

making Greg feel small, you know? And Greg was just kind of, I think he started to gather confidence that even though he was messing up because he was a very anxious. Person. So I think when you're, you know, you're anxious, you're gonna, you tend to kind of slip off. Yeah. You sometimes overshare when you're in a state of anxiety,

Erin: 6:41

or you might just not remember exactly what the truth is because Greg really wanted to impress Jack, and so he's probably like, oh gosh, I wanna answer the right thing. some of the questions he was asking were so personal and so insane. Yeah.

Tanya: 6:55

Yeah, and it's intense. It's like in front of other people. He is kind of embarrassing him. I don't like that I either get really mad or trip up. it definitely can make me do some silly things. But Greg is pretty strong for staying on, I think, and trying to meet his own, doesn't he lose the cat or he lets the cat out? Jinxx. Who's like. The superior cat that the dad has trained. And then he tries to, because he's like, oh man, he is gonna be mad. So he tries to get this stray cat. He doesn't know all the tricks, looks like him. or like a shelter cat. And then the neighbor ends up coming back with Jinx and he is like, it just seems like he's a liar. But really it's like he scared I can't, you're gonna.

Erin: 7:37

Yeah.

Tanya: 7:38

And then, you know, Greg just has his moments. they're playing water volleyball. He accidentally hits the ball and it hits Pam's sister's face right before her wedding. Jack's just like, what's wrong with you? he does a good job of ousting him basically. he just does not think he's good enough and he kind of makes it look like, oh, he did it to himself. So he's very manipulative. it's almost, it's like, you know, in the ca a he torture, probably learned some psychological tricks, I'm guessing.

Erin: 8:03

Really overtake, you know, whatever situation he is in and making Greg feel like really, you know, less than probably increase his anxiety. That's probably part of Jack's plan too. Like how can I make him a fumbling mess or, you know, make my daughter not wanna date him. Yeah. and I think ultimately

Tanya: 8:21

this is what bothers me about these movies, and maybe it's just like, not so much anymore, but definitely from like the early two thousands and before where it's like, you know, the resolve is Jack Overhears finally Greg leaves because he is just like, okay, they clearly don't want me, I'm messing up. He's just like, yeah, they're trying to get the ex-boyfriend, whatever, and Pam talks to him. and Pam talks to Greg on the phone Jack overhears how much, she really loves him and cares about him, so he wants to rectify. He is like, oh, I don't wanna hurt my daughter. And like, he didn't see that all along, but saw that in the phone call.

Erin: 8:53

the whole relationship. I don't see that in person. I just see what I wanna see.

Tanya: 8:57

yeah, so I think it kind of shows how much control Jack has, but also how much is maybe kept from him as well

Erin: 9:05

Yeah,

Tanya: 9:06

he's a formidable character, right? He's tough to be around. Yeah. his family is probably intimidating too.

Erin: 9:10

They probably learn to walk on eggshells around him so they can be perceived as the perfect daughter like whatever role he's assigned them, they probably want him to still them as that, you know, because he is probably a little scary or. A little intense even at home in their unit that he wants to protect so much. Yeah. And the fact that he was

Tanya: 9:32

in the CAA, they probably had to deal with things that were like, okay, I don't know. But I have to just be okay with that. they kind of got used to that pattern and bringing someone in is very serious to Jack and they understand that. They probably feel, I think the mom and, Pam especially really feel for Greg and see that he's a nice person, but the mom kind of has just dealt with his antic for a long time, so she's a little, she comes off a little passive, but kind of like she will be able to get through to him sometimes. that's probably how she had to manage.

Erin: 10:02

a state of paranoia too, like if you didn't know what his intentions are or what his background is.

Tanya: 10:07

I don't know how anybody could be in a family with, or be a person who is like an FBI or CIA. I would just be very paranoid And plus you would have a whole separate life you could not share and things you couldn't share with your partner or family. it's just tough. It comes out in some way, you know, and a lot of people

Erin: 10:24

probably don't even know what he does for a living. So he probably just has to share half of himself with them. Yeah. Like I think he says he's like a

Tanya: 10:31

He's a florist but Greg finds that weird. from the start. he brings a rare flower and yeah. Jack doesn't know what it is and he is like, oh, that's weird. So he's, kind of suspicious. trying to sniff people out, but he himself is carrying this big secret.

Erin: 10:45

kind.

Tanya: 10:46

And then for the next, in the series Meet the Fs, we meet Greg's parents and see, how he is the way he is. his parents are the complete opposite of hams. They're very like freewheeling and free love, and. You know dad is former lawyers. Well, it's even interesting dad,

Erin: 11:03

They're all taking a road trip to the parents' house. Greg is again trying to really bond with the dad when they pull up to the house, Greg's dad is like shirtless gardening or whatever he is doing out front. He is like, are those your parents? You know, because they're like dressed very loudly and they just. Aren't, you know, probably what Jack is accustomed to or what Jack expects from adults.

Tanya: 11:25

Very serious and, you know, kind of always, you know, in those interactions that it very much reflects how he is with people. He is kind of standoffish, kind of aloof. for various reasons, his mom follows suit, But she, meets the FS and she likes the mom. She's like, Hey, this is kind of nice. And she sees how much Greg's parents are actually expressed love to each other. They're not like, afraid of that. And, you know, the dad was a lawyer turned stayat home dad. So he's very emotionally aware and. She's a sex therapist, so she is very open With things. And I think that's appealing to the mom because she's lived with this stifled, contained marriage and way of looking at family with Jack for a while. she seems drawn to them and Jack just immediately is rejecting them. He's just like, no, I don't want this, I don't like this. you could see Greg being a little embarrassed about his parents and their presentation he knows how Jack will receive them. and how it might be a reflection on him. we were talking earlier, Aaron and I, we were talking about, how. Greg, you can see from his parents why he is a people pleaser and maybe why he is anxious he didn't have much structure growing up and when there is somebody authoritative, he might respond by saying, right, I have to, do whatever they tell me.

Erin: 12:41

who were very. Supportive to a fault. we were both laughing, like where they have all the ribbons and trophies, and Jack is like, what? I didn't even know they made a ninth place trophy. What is this? And then the dad's like, oh no, we have more. There's 10th place and 11th place. He is like, what? Why would you even display this?

Tanya: 13:01

It is really funny to me though. Do what you gotta do. But like, It's so proud. He's the biggest

Erin: 13:06

He's just like, I'm so proud of my boy and Jack. a good example of the two different worlds and mindsets. Now Greg is trying to live between both worlds, like where he wants Jack's approvals. Like, you know, Jack is probably like, we only display first place trophies having that much acceptance from your parents, You would think it'd be very freeing, but it probably does create a lot of anxiety because Greg probably never really knew exactly who he was or who he wanted to be. Yeah, he kind of,

Tanya: 13:33

feedback he got was kind of always positive. And so if you don't get any feedback that's constructive, maybe lovingly guiding it, it might give a kid a false sense of who they are and, or maybe just kind of feel like I don't really know who I am, or maybe I can't handle things that are kind of tough and. you know, when people do criticize me or are rude I don't think that's necessarily the way Greg is. I think he's sensitive and can. Somewhat handle his own, but he definitely had some people pleaser tendencies.'cause he didn't really have that structure and he had that kind of one-way feedback where it was just you're great no matter what you do. and we're not, I'm not trying to put that down. If anybody else does that parenting style, more power to you. We don't want everyone, we're all saying yelled, you know? this was very exaggerated.

Erin: 14:16

Like, not to the extreme of Jack. And not to the extreme of, the Fs, some people thrive in that. Some people thrive in like the, oh, I had the hippie dippy parent, and I was like, really? You know, like, look at me now. it creates a state of anxiety of like, well, I have so much uncertainty because I don't really have a clear set path because I wasn't really encouraged. It was just kinda like, oh, whatever you really wanna do is fine. It's like, well, I don't know what I wanna do. That's the problem.

Tanya: 14:46

kids actually do crave and need guidance. They may not act like it. But they need that. Otherwise, you're kind of, leaving them alone in it. With Greg's parents, he was very much, loved and cared for. put, more free choice and supporting your feelings

Erin: 15:01

I don't know if she is a psychiatrist or a sex therapist, I'm sure she was very encouraging, like, how are you feeling? Dustin Hoffman's character seems like he was very in touch with his emotions and feelings too. Yeah,

Tanya: 15:13

for sure.

Erin: 15:13

was.

Tanya: 15:14

I mean, with those little Hawaiian shirts and Tai Chi he definitely was not afraid to just be himself, which I think that's pretty cool. They both are very not afraid. Greg's parents are not afraid to be themselves. They're not ashamed. however, they didn't seem to have a lot of boundaries. In one particular case, they were like, oh yeah, Greg lost his virginity to the housekeeper, who was apparently a lot older. And they were just like, cool. But we all knew about it and we're just gonna talk about it right in front of you guys. your future in-laws and Pam and Greg are getting married in this one spoiler, in case you haven't seen this. So they are planning the wedding and everything. but yeah, that's kinda like a lack of boundaries, lack of privacy. It's gotta be kind of tough.

Erin: 15:58

knowing ev things be so open, especially if you're kind of more and anxious child. And also they probably didn't let Greg be a kid or even a teen There was a lot of purification or however you say that, you know, like where, they really let him be part of the adult roles. They're having those adult conversations with him too. it is a little more freeing and a little more open. that's not always the best way to parent because there aren't as many boundaries.

Tanya: 16:26

I think it really depends on the kid, but it seems like Greg grew up knowing he was loved, but he,

Erin: 16:32

he maybe has

Tanya: 16:32

some anxiety and like we talked about you know, people pleasing tendencies and maybe just some shame about certain things. Well, and that's also, you don't

Erin: 16:39

really want that shared, you know, with your possible future fa father-in-law, you know, like yeah's awkward.

Tanya: 16:45

Especially if he's a former retired CIA agent and sees the housekeeper's child who has an uncanny eyebrow resemblance to Ben Stiller. And then the whole, plot with. Jack trying to get the DNA in the tooth serum to be like, is that your kid? but yeah, it really is a collision of two worlds of over control versus we're gonna give just love and free structure. Yeah. And let the child kind of choose, you know, so it's very opposite spectrums and parenting and even where they live. I thought that was interesting. Like Pam's parents are in New York and. greg's parents are in Miami. they're just even in opposite coasts. And like the perception of, people that live there, like down south is kind of more relaxed and up north is more uptight But yeah, it is, really interesting see that and to get a glimpse into Greg's world and where he comes from and that he's on his home territory. he maybe doesn't have to be as intimidated. He's kind of. Presumably since meet the parents, been able to hang out with the family more. Maybe Jack has been a little more comfortable with him, but he clearly is still always gonna be suspicious because he Thinks the kid is the housekeeper's kid is his, you know, gives him a truth serum and Yeah. Tries to get a, and gets a DNA test. ultimately, it's not his kid, it's some baseball player And then even the cat Jinx that they bring is a dominating control freak, which is like Right. You know, Jack's personality mirrored in the cat and he tries he, well, he does succeed in flushing the Fers dog.

Erin: 18:11

no one

Tanya: 18:11

Yeah, I just go swirling down. He is all blue from that yucky blue toilet chemical stuff but yeah, I thought this was really interesting because I remember when this came out, like meet the parents was like 2000 and to meet the FS was 2004. So I was, you know, high school and college around that time. I remember thinking it was pretty funny, but I was like, oh my gosh, I would hate to be in Greg's position. I remember just feeling really bad for him. as an anxious person who's very people pleasing I can relate more to the parenting style that, Greg has, but not in the same way. It wasn't different, but less structured.

Erin: 18:47

So, my mom was more of a bonger, and my dad was more like, Jack, I guess that creates a lot of insight. I could kind of see that. Yeah. for a child, it's like, how am I supposed to act? am I supposed to be relaxed with this parent, or show no emotion. That's hard. Yeah. I think my dad was kind of

Tanya: 19:01

Jack kind of, but I didn't live with him very often and he would go back and forth with things because of the, issues that he had. he did have moments of that. I guess I'm just speaking more in terms of my mom mostly, my mom did raise us and so she was, I think she was always working. she just didn't really have any time to regulate, she was very busy. that can create a lot of anxiety, I'm not blaming my mom did the best that she could do, and that was a lot. it was, a lot of kids, five kids, so that's a lot. she just worked, she had to work a lot and couldn't really set up things for us I remember I was a child who craved, structure and discipline, but. I didn't have the words and we just didn't have the resources.

Erin: 19:37

I think I've talked about it in the past, I feel like being the youngest, I often got the short shaft of that. my sibling, especially my older ones, were. Always in structured sports and activities I had to sign myself up for chorus in elementary school and middle school, you know,'cause I wanted to do something. But I never was in any sports or never in anything. And I do have knew every resentment for that, but I do wish that they would've been like, okay, my,'cause my mom got very loosey goosey. And she always was, but she got more so with, you know, when it was me, I think she was just done parenting. By the time she got to the end, One of my brothers always jokes and says, yeah, by the time you came, mom was just kind of done having kids. I'm like, oh, great. That's really awesome to hear.

Tanya: 20:21

Yeah. I think that's the flight of the youngest when you have a large family. It really is. at least maybe in that time. I don't know about now if it's changed, for sure. it doesn't fit that pop psychology model where we got everything and we got baby. That's not at all what it is. And not having somebody check in on you is not a great thing. It's not a fun thing. for me it was a very, scary nerve wracking anxiety.

Erin: 20:43

Hey, I did not like it. Even making sure I'm doing my homework or is anyone checking to see that I walked home? Okay. From, elementary school, like just little things.'cause it's just like, ah, whatever. You know, she's working or they're working But yeah, it is kind of like having the adult conversations with you as a teenager or a young kid, not a young adult, you feel like you're a young adult because you're having these conversations with your mom. You know, like that's why I felt like there wasn't really the. Boundaries, which it seems like with Greg's family, they just were like, oh, we'll just talk about anything freely with Greg his whole life. that's how I felt with my mom after a certain age, This is weird.

Tanya: 21:19

I didn't have that with my mom. I kind of had that with just'cause I had older siblings. And they just probably were doing their thing and I heard it. Not total.

Erin: 21:25

It's not like For stuff, but just like stuff that you don't wanna hear, you know, which as a kid you shouldn't really know about, just different things. Yeah.

Tanya: 21:32

I for my mom it was inadvertently, yeah. just because of stuff. Can't overhear stuff of our house. A lot of things, but, yeah. Yes. The youngest is not have easy and a large. Family, and I'm not saying that this is not true for other people, I think no kid has it easy in a large group maybe just in general, being kid is tough. My mom was the youngest of five and she described herself as like, she felt like she was kind of spoiled and everything, but I dunno if I even see that. I had a little bit of a separation, like between my two oldest sisters and then I have twin sisters right above me that are only a year and a half older than me. So there's kind of a little bit of a division in that. And I think my older two sisters saw differences in that because my dad was probably living with them more. when they were growing up. Whereas my dad was outta the house when I was like six. And I only kind of knew him in a certain way. that he maybe wasn't back then. And I think sometimes it was said that, you know, because of not having a structure, which I so wanted, and a lot of kids, need it, that, my sisters and I were spoiled. that's just so wrong. Because we were not. We kind of were just free falling a lot, and we kind of just had each other. I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just trying to say that was my experience of it. And, I think they can maybe misperceive that

Erin: 22:42

it's a different childhood because my oldest is 10 years apart from me, and the next is seven or so. it's a different childhood from, you know, like, from even looking at the pictures of them, I'm like totally different because they had the parent, my parents were in a different state of mind

Tanya: 22:59

pros and cons I've tried to talk about this. I don't know if anybody really takes my point of view into account, but I do think Both had pros and cons. I wasn't there for the first part, But that probably had its rough points, But not having rules and nothing looked after in that department at certain points is not right. that's a really odd, I never understood that. I was always like, I don't know, I just always felt like when that would be said, I was just like, I feel so. Bad. I couldn't put it into words, but I was like, it was like a re, Wounding. I was like, why am I being blamed for this? I don't get it. family dynamics are weird. We're talking about different types of families and so it's

Erin: 23:33

all related.

Tanya: 23:33

But families are weird. That's our assessment, meet the Foxs and meet the parents.

Erin: 23:37

they definitely showcase different styles and how spouses interact with each other and the kids are based on that too. it's different. they are weird. that's our assessment people's, that's the wees psychotherapist. So rundown is, yeah. Yeah. That's our analysis. but yeah, so I wanted to, okay. You know, I like these, our fun question, which is. I was gonna ask about

Tanya: 24:02

like which parenting style you'd like more to have had, but I think I'd rather ask where would you have liked to have grown up in New York or Miami? Well, you know how I feel about

Erin: 24:12

New York, but I guess when would I be growing up in Miami? If it's Miami in the eighties or seventies maybe. I don't know. Of those choices. I might choose New York, but maybe more upstate New York, not the city, not Manhattan. maybe where it's a little more woodsy, maybe almost Canada, New York. So I choose New York, but really upstate, upstate

Tanya: 24:35

Yeah, I agree. I would choose New York as well I'm not a fan of the heat. I feel like maybe I would've felt more attuned to the city if I had been there. Like, I wouldn't have loved now who I am, but maybe I don't know. I think maybe got accustom to it or my mom grew up in the Bronx

Erin: 24:50

Yonkers and she loved it and she thrived on it. she always would pick a city location no matter, you know,'cause she just felt more connected in the city So, I mean, I did appreciate when I'd go there and I liked it and you know, I like Manhattan, but I just, I don't know, I guess from different family and different things. It just has really made me not like New York. It's not, the whole state.

Tanya: 25:11

I love the things that you have access to in the city, but crowded places where there's lots of people I don't love. I do like a lot of upstate New York. I do think it's very nice. Yeah. And there's a lot of things there or by the beach, like,

Erin: 25:25

Long Island looks really pretty that's so far from everything. It'd be hard to live there. unless you're really rich. yeah, for sure.

Tanya: 25:32

it's pretty, in both cities

Erin: 25:33

expensive. Miami's very expensive too.

Tanya: 25:35

But yeah. let us know what you think. This was definitely different from Adam. Don't worry. We're not leaving them. let us know your thoughts and feelings. Anything you wanna add, anything you want us to know, anything outside of this we love hearing from you. we are on all socials. Tell a friend, write us a review. Share five stars please. That'd be great.

Erin: 25:57

Have a great week. Bye.

25:59

Thanks for listening to the Wicked Psychotherapist Podcast. Be sure to like and follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.