Belle Gibson & the Psychology of a Fraud (Netflix's Apple Cider Vinegar)

We dive into the twisted true story behind Netflix’s Apple Cider Vinegar—the dramatization of wellness influencer Belle Gibson, who faked cancer and built an empire on lies. 

Tanya and Erin break down the psychology behind her behavior, including possible signs of Munchausen syndrome, narcissistic traits, and how emotional trauma may have shaped her manipulation.

We also explore:

• Why people fall for “health influencers” with no credentials
• The mental health toll on Belle’s partner and child
• Real-life consequences for followers who believed her story
• The ethics of publishing unchecked wellness content
• And... coffee enemas vs. 14 juices a day—which would you pick? 🥴

💥 This is a must-listen if you're into psychology, media scandals, or just want to understand how someone could fake cancer and get away with it—for a while.

🧠 Don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a 5-star review.

🧡 Stay wicked and keep your mind well.

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Transcript

Erin: 0:31

Hey guys, this is Tanya. Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

tanya: 0:35

Welcome to another episode. we are actually, in our. Third season. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so this is, this is pretty exciting. we should count up how many episodes? I know we got 75 episodes not too long ago.

Erin: 0:47

it's, I think we're at like 75 or, well more than 75. So probably at least 78.

tanya: 0:53

Yeah, we're getting up there. So thank you for continuing to join us. If you're new here. we are. A podcast that likes to discuss some. topics involving mental health revolving around movies shows sitcoms, documentaries, things like that. That's kind of our niche. but today we are discussing if you have been active on Netflix, you would be very aware of this. It's called Apple Cider Vinegar. and it is a dramatization of, based on a real story, which some, some of the facts have been changed. It's not completely accurate, which they very much put in there. and it involves a gamer named Bell Gibson, whom we do not alike very much. So she is a real character. She is someone who was able to fool many people, made a lot of profit off of, products and content and apps, books, or a book that then got revoked, which talked about leading a healthy lifestyle. And being able to cure the cancer that she says she had. Mm-hmm. Which, spoiler alert she did not Have cancer at all. which as you can see, this is really dangerous. Mm-hmm. not only mentally corrupt and horrendous, but, just absolutely. I think one of the worst things you can do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. so Belle, we learn is a complex character. She is really someone who presents things with a lot of confidence. She has the ability to lie on the fly. Like she really can pull out those lies and construct these very confident narratives that people just. You know, I think most people would believe. Mm-hmm. Because she just comes off so, straightforward, so knowledgeable. And she is, she's very smart. she's not a, she's not a stupid person and she doesn't know a lot about, the natural food, holistic way of living. I'm trying to remember how she, how she starts out saying she has, cancer. I think it was from, She was kind of hurt by something and then she kind of gets so hurt that she feels like she needs attention and, starts to write all these things online about how she has cancer. Yeah. Do you remember what that first event was?

Erin: 3:11

I think it was something being a, you know, she was in a bad relationship with her sons. Father they were poor, you know, like, you know, young and poor. And it seems like she wasn't getting any attention from anybody. So, and I don't know if you know, and her mom had m ms, so she was familiar with brain diseases. This is what I got. And then I don't think she really had an MRI, I think she probably, maybe she did or had something. And then of course there was no findings'cause she didn't have anything. But then I think she, that's when she ran with it. Like, oh, I got a lot of attention getting the testing and what would it look like? you know, since I'm a stay at home mom, or I'm not really having any support from anybody. And I think that was when it, she started to run with it, you know, and be like, okay, let me create this diagnosis and this persona.

tanya: 4:05

Yeah, I feel like there was some need for attention, and that she was really kind of looking for something to be able to continue to say, okay, this is going to feed my need for attention, I feel like she probably had some form of, and this is just a guess. Mm-hmm. You know, and I don't really know this Right. Because we don't work with her. We don't treat her. You know, it's just, but it seems like maybe fictitious disorder. Yeah. Or Munchausen. Right. Like, not by proxy, not imposed on another. But, like maybe for herself that maybe she realized, oh, if I do this, people will give me attention. I think she started to see, she was reading another profile and seeing how much support And, you know, kind of, Online, presence. This other person was getting or other people. And so she, I think, said, well, I'm so upset. I'm gonna go to the hospital and say, you know, I have, headaches or I have all these symptoms and get attention from that. And then she just decided to post online that even though these were not the results she was told everything was fine by the hospital to say that she had brain cancer. Right. which is. You know, the kind that she had said, she, she had, it was, that's a pretty, a pretty devastating diagnosis. Mm-hmm. and it's, you know, I think she had said she was in like a, a late stage too, which, at that point there's, there's a pretty low chance of survival. Nevermind even like living kind of well day to day. Right. And she started to promote. A lifestyle of this holistic living that's, you know, saying, okay, I followed these recipes. Mm-hmm. This type of, of eating, you know, made, all these, these, she was, she was good at inventing recipes. Really good recipes. She could like just do'em on.

Erin: 5:47

just use her stuff for good instead of evil and just be like, Hey, I could be an influencer and look at these really great, I love to cook and I can make really good recipes.

tanya: 5:57

Yeah. Yeah. She looked like she was making some great stuff. Mm-hmm. Like, I was like, oh, that looks good. And she, she like didn't even have to really do the re, like she didn't have to put much thought into it. She was just like, yeah, you do this and that. She had like a natural talent for it, I think. and instead she created this whole narrative about this type of living was the thing that was reversing her. Her cancer. I think she had said, you know, this is stuff that I, I don't know if she said she went into remission or if she was like, just, I dunno, doing a lot better. I'm not really sure what the real, because this is based on a True story. but there again, there's some facts that are not quite real. there's some liberties taken, but, she ends up getting a huge following people. Really believe this story. And this is dangerous obviously, because she did not have cancer. And some people may feel, kind of fed up with the options they may have. From, this type of cancer treatment or, you know, having to. seek out, pay for, right. Go through the difficulties of this and may think, wow, maybe I have a shot at being able to cure my cancer or have this be in remission, when this does not have a high probability of being in remission. And, she affects some people, But in the meantime, she gets all this attention. She also gets a book deal, which was actually on Apple, like an app for it. And it was, I mean, she just had such confidence and wherewithal that people didn't really, you know, I don't think they thought anybody would lie about having cancer. Well, she's really good at selling

Erin: 7:28

So, and I think that's too, like, she made people, you know, again, even though was like, whatever. Stuff was going on with her. She could have done really well being an honest person.'cause it seemed like she was really good at marketing herself. She was really good at creating and you know, getting in these difficult meetings probably with Apple. And so if she would've just been like, Hey, I am a 20 something year old and I'm never gone to culinary school, but look at what I can do. People would've been impressed without her making all these other lies.

tanya: 7:59

Yeah. And I, I know there was something about, I don't know how true this is'cause I don't know anything about like the publishing world or anything, but I know that the person that she goes to when she goes to publish, she kind of tricks into getting a meeting. Yeah. You know, she's got all these resourceful ways of being like, oh, let me in. And it somehow works. But the woman, I can't think of her name, the one who published her book had said, you know, it's the story behind it. Right. you know, it's not necessarily just that you have these things, it's the story behind it. And I think Bell kind of sensed too late, like, oh, I've put out this narrative now. This is what's going to make it sell, Right. But if she had, presented it maybe from the beginning and gone a different route. Yeah. That could have been really, you know, like a, single parent, who, doesn't have much time but is able to make this healthy lifestyle work.

Erin: 8:45

Yeah, people would've been interested in that.'cause you see that now, like you see like, I don't know, I always feel like my things are flooded by like. look at what I've done by myself and I don't have, it's probably all the join. Yeah. Sign up for my course. Or you, like, you're always like,

tanya: 9:01

right.

Erin: 9:03

Yeah. And you're like, I don't, why am I getting this? how did I get on that algorithm? I always wonder that, what did I accidentally click on that? Now all of a sudden, I am like every single course in the world, or every single. Thing thinks I wanna join it or be part of it.

tanya: 9:17

Yeah. Seriously. It's like one, one and, and you could have just really accidentally clicked on it or just like even just passed by it and lingered for a minute because you looked up off your phone and they're like, oh, nope, she's looking at it.'cause they couldn't even read that off the algorithm. Yeah. but. this person is very dishonest. she is dangerous. She believes her lies to the point where she probably still to this day believes her lies. I don't know if that's true, but it seemed like it from some of the last interviews she gave. But to kind of backtrack a little bit, we do learn about her, her childhood. We see that her mom has some, some stuff going on. Right. She, she had ms, it was, I think mom had said it's actually was not as much as Bell had exaggerated and said it was like she had to take care of the whole household. And her younger autistic brother, which was not true or younger, brother, was not autistic, and she did not have to take care of the household. the mom was like, I had mild flareups. But also the mom had some competitiveness when she has a boyfriend, she's really happy to flaunt that with balls. Like they have this competitiveness. mom definitely has some personality. Disorder ish stuff that she is, you can tell, has really influenced and affected Bell because Bell obviously has that too. so there's definitely an unhealthy dynamic there. A lot of emotional,

Erin: 10:38

immature parenting happening, and, you know, it's Probably that may have influenced whatever personality disorder Bell may have from her childhood.

tanya: 10:49

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I think she probably just wanted to go and reinvent herself and be something completely different. This is what a success looks like. And in that way you can kind of, understand her, but not how she did it, of course. but you know, and then there's also, she meets Clive who is the person she meets after, the father of her child leaves. And even in how she meets him is manipulative. She wants something from him. She is, because his position will allow her to be able to, where was he working? his position would allow her, he's an IT

Erin: 11:24

person somewhere where something that she was trying to be. A little more seen, I forget what it was, but she did man manipulate and she started flirting and then needed a ride somewhere. So then all of a sudden they just started to Yeah, date and is like, she never, like, she just kind of latched onto his life.'cause she was unemployed at the time and he had a job and he could probably help her.

tanya: 11:46

Right. That's what it was. And she saw him at some kind of event and was like, Ooh, he's a good IT person. And she goes and flirts with him. And I mean, everything is pretty transactional with her. She wants something from, if she's trying to know people and he's a very, you could tell, kind of nervous, shy, nice guy. And she knows that she can read that. She's very good at reading people. She's very manipulative. And she, ultimately just takes advantage of that. And you know, kind of keeps him around because he, he can offer her that stability, but she doesn't really seem to, consider what it is he needs. It's like a one way, one way street in the relationship. and at first he's really concerned with all her health issues. he starts to suspect along the way. when he drops her off for her appointments, he goes into, because I think she left something in the car. And he goes in and they're like, we've never heard of that patient. And like, this isn't even the right place to get like your chemotherapy kind of thing. And he was just like, you know, kind of starting to, to realize there's, yeah, there's something going on here. he's starting to see that in pieces and eventually after a while he really sees how much she lies the patterns that she has. And even when he confronts her, he sees how much she will just kind of pull something out and make it work, and he's like, oh, wow. She's messed up. She's really kind of messed up, at least in the portrayal of the documentary or the dramatization.

Erin: 13:11

But he stays with her too, because I think his loyalty to, yeah. Her son was Oliver or something that, that he ends up becoming very attached to, and he ends up being basically almost the main parent because she's so. Focused on herself and her phone and her app, and you know, like whatever else is happening to make herself look better. She forgets to interact with real people.

tanya: 13:40

Yeah. She's just all about herself and, and he genuinely loves her son and feels like it's. his own son, and she makes a comment in one of the scenes where it's like, why would you be able to have any rights? You're not his father, you're not on his birth certificate. and he's so hurt by that because he is just like, I've been here and you would just take that away from me. It's just such a rotten thing. And he basically, was just staying with her because he loves the little boy, like his own. and yeah, he is parenting him and, and being the only stable parent because she, she's allowing, you know, there's one scene when she has a birthday party for Oliver, that she has parents around. You know, she made it like this huge to-do. It was more kind of like. It was more a party that was like, you know, you could take pictures of and put in a magazine Kind of thing. And, you know, with her perfect house and like she's all about image. And when she starts to feel like she's not getting enough attention, all of a sudden she has a seizure. And. She drops like this big plate of food on the floor and nobody knows what to do. And you see Clive, her boyfriend kind of like look like upset, but like at her. Mm-hmm. And very annoyed because he knows you just did this at your son's party in front of him, scared the crap out of him and just so you could get attention. Yeah. And he just kind of takes him away and is just like so mad at her about that. That's just so awful that she would do that in front of him. Like not even to think about, now let me just do this fake seizure narcissistic.

Erin: 15:16

I looked online'cause I was curious and that really did happen. All the other things like they did were kind of fake or, you know, just added. But she did definitely fake a seizure at her son's birthday party, which is like so, so awful to do. Just like so selfish and so self-absorbed. It's like, oh, they're paying attention to him. He's playing with his presents, or whatever's happening, God forbid, on his birthday. Yeah. Now everyone has to stop and you know, go to you.

tanya: 15:52

Yeah. She just, it was like this pathological need for attention. And you can see that in her mom when her mom ultimately goes to be interviewed and kind of just flips on her daughter because she's gonna get some attention from it. Yeah. You know, and so you're like, oh, well there it is. Okay. so there's just a lot of trauma. You can see that that kind of gets passed down a lot of. Personality stuff that is replicated with Bell in a different way. Again, not an excuse. Mm-hmm. Just saying you can see it and Yeah. And she traumatizes her, her son. I mean, now his memories are of that as a birthday. Yeah. Like his mom being, because as far as he knows, this little boy thinks this is real.

Erin: 16:33

I'm curious, like if he grew up and every time he had a birthday or a party, if that caused him. Fear or anxiety of like, ugh, did I cause this? Maybe he didn't even wanna have a birthday party after he might've been like, we're just doing the three of us from now on. No, you know, no friends, no party.

tanya: 16:54

That's, that is really, that was really terrible. I hated that scene. That made me like so upset

Erin: 16:58

kid too, I mean, I remember. Like as a little kid, like the birthday parties and stuff like that, I only remember a couple.'cause then they caused me as a child, too much, too much anxiety that I was like, Nope, not gonna do it. I remember like waiting for friends to come, being all anxious, crying, like if no one was coming. But I can't imagine how stressful that would be as a little kid if your mom or someone is just falling to the ground, you know it. That would be so stressful. And I'd be like, Nope. Never having a birthday party.

tanya: 17:29

Yeah. That would just be like, no, no thanks. Maybe I hate my birthday now. Yeah, yeah. and, and also, you know, I, we've, we haven't talked about some of the other characters that they do feature in the dramatization, which. We, we know, like one is, is fairly accurate. It's a little different than how it's portrayed, but it's, it's pretty accurate. Yeah. where there is one woman who she idolizes Bell and she, is seeing how, you know, bell, bell got better from all this, holistic. Treatment and all this stuff that she's touting on her socials and everything, and she is just really worn down by the chemo. Is just like, I don't wanna live this way to, I mean, totally understandable. but, but takes that as like, oh, maybe I can do some of this as well too. Mm-hmm. and I don't know if that was Lucy. I don't know how, how, if that was an actual true character or not. but she ends up. Trying to kind of go in and spiritually try to find answers to like, maybe accept death and, and try some other kind of natural means of, of dealing with this. And she actually ends up finding a pretty good balance for herself, at least as the character and husband

Erin: 18:42

is one of the main reporters too, So that would be interesting if she really was a real character.

tanya: 18:48

Yeah, because he really sees, you know, he, he's obviously in in love with, you know, his wife and he's so worried about her listening to this person that he's like, it, it just doesn't sound right to him in his journalistic investigative mind. Yeah. He's like, this is very weird. Yeah. And he starts to investigate that and lo and andhold. Yeah, there's some weird stuff about it. for sure. And he ends up in, in the dramatization writing the, the story. Take her down because she needed to be taken down. and there's also other characters. There's a Millie and her mom. Right. That was a sad one. That is actually, you said is pretty. Yeah, I don't remember people's names,

Erin: 19:28

but it is very similar to what happened. and that's sad too. And you don't know if they were influenced by her or if they just were going on their own holistic journey themselves. And this is just a. Side by side comparison.

tanya: 19:42

Yeah. I think in the Netflix special it made it seem like this. Millie was very, kind of hardheaded. she realized she had. some tumors in her arm. they had said like, okay, usually the treatment is amputation of the arm. And she was like, no, I don't wanna do that. that's not something I'm willing to accept. And she was reading about, I think, on her own, some, holistic ways of curing this. and then also, being able to try a direct infusion into her arm to be like, will that help it? It didn't help it. And she, I think just becomes strengthened by the fact that like there's this place in Costa Rica where,

Erin: 20:19

I don't know if she did Costa Rica or she did somewhere else, but some, somewhere in that area.'cause yeah, Mexico, maybe because I know, I think it one person went to Costa Rica and maybe it was Mexico. Lucy. Yeah. Lucy went to.

tanya: 20:31

And then, yeah, I think it was Mexico. I'm not remembering the details. I watched this when it first came out, but I believe it was in Mexico, this institute that she's just taken in by, that's like, you just need to do all these enemas, drink just natural fruit juices. And, you know, this person is really Millie, she's very taken by this and thinks, oh my God, I could save myself. This is what doctors are missing. And the institute that this place is at. Really touts this. Like, you know, doctors don't know what they're talking about. Like, we understand like this is what happens. Yeah. And it makes sense to someone who's really desperate to be like, I don't wanna lose my arm. Yeah. This young girl

Erin: 21:07

who's like in her twenties, right? Yeah.

tanya: 21:09

And, and the

Erin: 21:09

person is like, oh, I am, I forget, forget. I think she was like from Germany or something like that. And my father was this renowned scientist and this and that. And so then you're like, oh, wow. So they know what they're talking about. and then they're probably paid thousands and thousands of dollars to do it. it just seems so shady that they're doing it, but they're, you know, they're doing it in a different manner than Bell Belle Gibson.'cause it's like, oh, look at this great institute we have and we have all these people and we're doing this and we're doing coffee enemas and, you know.

tanya: 21:39

It seems so effective and like they back it up with like, oh, I couldn't, I had, I had hip surgery and I was given a 90% chance to never walk again and look at me and all these other cases that they presented and when they would have like their kind of, their one-on-ones like the psychological, like I can't, I don't know if I can continue to believe this. The woman who who ran the center was very much kind of convincing and being like, you have to believe it. You have to kind of, you know, know that this is something that is, you know, that's part of your mental block. Like that's just the only thing that's, that's coming between you and, just a, a lot of, a lot of gui honestly. Yeah. It really was a lot of the magical, like, believe in the

Erin: 22:16

and having her, whatever was happening with her arm is a lot different than hip surgery. You know?'cause maybe the being outside in the mountains or whatever was good for someone with hip surgery.'cause they're walking and they're mobile. You know, so maybe that was helping them, not the, not the coffee enemas or in the juicing,

tanya: 22:34

or maybe just having the support. Yeah, maybe having a lot of money, you know, and having a lot of help. Like there could have been so many different factors towards that. She took her mom there. And you know, her mom was like, okay, you know, like they, her mom and dad really, her dad was really opposed to this, but he didn't go with her. The mom did. And the mom was like, I really want to support this choice. But she, you could tell she had doubts, but then after she talked with the, the woman who owned it, she was like, okay, maybe this is something. Yeah. Because she just seemed very convinced of it. And it's, it's really sad because then. You know it, not that that, I mean, I'm sure having enemas and drinking fresh fruit juice and being out and walking and living the style, I'm sure that's very healthy, but that may not necessarily be a cure. Right. For, you know, like there may be some people who get lucky and maybe something or versus by some circumstance mm-hmm. Some happenstance, but it does not mean that that was necessarily connected.

Erin: 23:26

mix it together with traditional and. Alternative. Yeah. Or find something or, yeah. I can't imagine just living on juice. Whew.

tanya: 23:36

and I mean, that was kind of like that lifestyle promoted, you had to be devoted just kind of to that. Right. The enemas were like five times a day. Yeah. The juices were like 14 juices.

Erin: 23:45

yeah, that seems like it would wreck havoc.

tanya: 23:48

Yeah, I think they made jokes about that. They were kinda like, yeah, I gotta be near her bathroom kind of thing. but the sad part about that, and I have to say, the character of Millie to me, frustrated me af like, I understand that she wanted to believe this. But then with her mom, she was really pushing her mom, and her mom got sick. She was really pushing her mom to do this and to, you know, kind of say, okay, you know, this is something That, mm-hmm. That you need to do as well too. All you need to do, I'll even do the enemas, like I know the protocol. Like she thought she just knew everything how to cure this. And it turns out her mom was A different story. Yeah, I mean she was too. She didn't realize that, you know, at that point. But you know, her mom was like, got really sick when she first got the enemas and really had to be brought to the hospital and realized, oh my gosh, maybe this is not going to work for her. But the mom really wants to go through the treatment because. We realized the mom feels guilty because she was like, well, what kind of mom would I be if I let my daughter do this? And I didn't do this too, like I didn't believe in it. and, and I have to say the daughter, I know the daughter wants to believe in it, but she really is pushy and, and to, and allows her mom to the life. And, and I know this is just the character. And I know there's, there's a hard mindset here, and maybe I can't even put myself in that person's shoes, but. That that, that annoyed me. Yeah, that really, that really frustrated me.

Erin: 25:07

scenes where I was like, Ugh, I just love the dad because you know, he's trying to stand up for the mom and even stand up for Millie, and the boyfriend is so annoying and they're just like toting this vegan lifestyle and everything else, if you don't wanna be in it, you should not force other people into everything like that. And then the dad is just like, you're killing her. Your kid, you know, like, and he's trying to say like don't force your lifestyle for, for your medical beliefs or everything else on your mom.

tanya: 25:37

Yeah, yeah.

Erin: 25:38

Millie knew it wasn't working for her. She was hiding. Hiding at that moment, she was hiding her arm, had all the sores or the boils or whatever, and at the same time, she's telling her mom like, don't take any medication.

tanya: 25:49

Yeah. Which I recognize was like a form of denial. Mm-hmm. She didn't wanna believe she is dying. She wanted to believe this was working. But I, I just think it's so sad that, the mom could, I mean, the mom could had maybe a chance, you know, maybe she did too, had, if she was able to admit to herself, like, Hey, maybe I just need to look at this as well, you know, it doesn't have to be fully this. She could have maybe had maybe still the arm amputation. Yeah. Which is of course, really, really hard. Yeah. And then it was just too late by the time she recognized it and she showed her dad and was like, I didn't get remission from this. And the mom dies. Yeah. so it's just really frustrating to see. I think there's an overall theme in this showing, like we said, there's a balance between looking at holistic options, but also in saying you can't solely rely on that. A hundred percent all the time. Especially, I mean, depending on what it is, but in those cases, certainly not. Well, and also

Erin: 26:41

both, with both of those people that we're talking about Belle and Millie, it's thinking, you know, like not thinking that you're the be all, end all, or that you have all the answers. It's okay to seek outside help or you know, like, yeah, not just one person or one resource either.

tanya: 26:57

Yeah, and I think they're doing it for different reasons, like Belle is doing it for attention. And the fact that she's got personality disorder, she's trying to meet other needs. Millie is doing it because she really wants to feel like she's in control. Like, she shouldn't just have this option of like, oh, chop off my arm, or that's it. Which is of course understandable. But unfortunately, I think that was maybe the reality and the surgeon was like, listen to me. The surgeon was trying to warn her. Yeah. And it's just heartbreaking, I think to see that. because of course when you're in that situation, you wanna believe there's other alternatives. Yeah. but Bella is a totally different story because she gave hope and published all these, these

Erin: 27:34

I one thing too, like, which is very like, you know, I don't know what her diagnosis, but it is very much like a narcissist. Like where she would love bomb, every single person, you know, like all the people. Then just, you know, like, it just seemed like she was just so trans, like almost in like a trance with like the phone and the app and like just, oh look, what are people saying? What are, how are people replying to what I'm posting and. It just, you know, do they love me or is it all about me? And her reality was just very skewed in every

tanya: 28:07

aspect. Yeah, it really was. And she really was getting like such a feed from that. And she would do anything and to the point where, you know, she, she was confronted by, Millie's friend who was, you know, that, that she was like, basically like, we know, you know, why don't you just come clean? And to be honest, it looked like for, for a minute, you know, that, That Bell was gonna be like, okay, yeah, yeah, maybe I should, maybe I should. And the friend kind of thought like, oh wow, she's gonna, she's gonna come clean. And then she ups the ante and says she now has three new cancers. it's like she needs even more. All these underlying mental health themes with personality disorders, how they can show also influencers and not checking your resources, not knowing what is good for your own health versus just relying on what people are putting out there as content. Mm-hmm. you know, the fact that it made it to a book That is, I think, a fault of there not being proper checks. In place. I do think that was an irresponsibility. On the part of the publishers and everything, I don't really know if that's something they would typically do. Like, I don't know that process, but there was something that was missing there.

Erin: 29:14

say, I mean, they, maybe they would check your medical records or something, because it seems like for interviews even they, they say, let's see your. You know, your references or you know, so why would they not for a, a very expensive book deal, why would they not say we need references or we need proof that this is real.

tanya: 29:34

yeah. And I mean the woman who was, publishing it, was kind of asking, and then they had that whole crisis. session with her to be like, okay, if you go on interviews, you have to be ready to answer this. And I couldn't tell if this was them trying to be like, wait, now she's full of it. Or, well, because she was

Erin: 29:51

kind of backpedaling at that point too. Bell was in the movie or whatever it is. Show. She's like, oh, maybe we don't have to mention the cancer.

tanya: 30:00

yeah.

Erin: 30:01

cookbook or we're this, and they're like, no. That's a big part of the

tanya: 30:05

story and the selling points and that everybody wants,

Erin: 30:08

wanted, wanted that. Yeah. I think at that point she was like, oh, crap. I am, I'm getting, you know, because she, she had had the email from the, you know, the reporters and everything, so at that point she's probably realizing like, oh, great, everybody is. What my truth is, it's gonna come out.

tanya: 30:23

Yeah. But I, I do wonder, I, I have, I, I'm not sure if this really happened or not, but in the, the Netflix dramatization, they, they had that, session with her, and I think they, they were onto her, but I almost feel like there was, they were trying to be like, you have to be able to sell this. You know, it started to become very apparent that they're like, all right, we gotta this. We, so they were aware of it at a certain point, late, late in the game, you know? And, but we're like, okay, let's still try to sell Yeah, yeah. We still have to make money off of this. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's truly, I mean, and this is, you know, I've, I've watched interviews with the real Belle Gibson. She is a slippery slope personified. she is just really. Avoids questions. They, they're very vague in answers. They don't make sense. there's a famous interview with her, with Tara Brown, which actually Tara Brown is in the dramatization. She is Tara Brown. Oh, that is her. Okay. So that's interesting. That is her. Yeah, they had her in there. she's like, Australia's like hard hitting journalist. apparently they love her and you know, she just gets to the point and she, she definitely did.

Erin: 31:28

I think you said she has that same Pink, pink sweater?

tanya: 31:32

Yes. Which I don't know if it's trying to be like innocent, so like, I'm just wearing this like, yeah. Like I'm just kind of a, a, you know, everyday person just wearing pink, you know? And I, I don't know what the intention was. It probably was thought out,

Erin: 31:44

I mean, it doesn't seem like she did anything not well planned.

tanya: 31:50

Yeah. Yeah. She definitely was very manipulative. Mm-hmm. But, yeah, and, and you know, the brother has been, her brother has been interviewed being like, I don't know why she said I was autistic or that she took care of me. Like, that's just not true. You know? he actually seemed to be pretty much like, I, I still care about her. I just don't get this kind of, so he was, yeah, I'd be really mad

Erin: 32:11

at my sister or brother if they were doing that. This is affecting me and my reputation doing everything.

tanya: 32:17

Yeah. you know what? There's one more thing that we didn't mention was the little boy who she was raising funds for, who actually had a brain tumor and like a really advanced one, and she ended up not giving them money that they needed. And they were depending on that for the surgery that he needed. It was like too late to be like, oh, well, where else can we get the funds? I don't know how accurate that was. in the true life story, but that is just horrendous. I did read that she,

Erin: 32:43

well, part of the things too is she promised I think it was$300,000 to different charities that she would, you know, probably even more that she never did anything for. So she probably was scamming a bunch of people.

tanya: 32:57

yeah, like raising like GoFundMe and then not giving them the money when they're donating for that purpose.

Erin: 33:02

which makes you really question how many times, like when you see all these GoFundMe, but these GoFundMe that people have, like how many are people actually using for what they say they are? And how much are people just using the money and then buying themselves a new car even though they say they're helping someone else? There's really no way. hopefully people are actually using it. But you don't know, I mean, you're just putting your trust in these people.

tanya: 33:26

Well, she really doesn't give a good name to it. for sure. I think people are very, you know, she definitely lost a lot of people's trust and kind of caused them to look over things a few times. Yeah. Before trusting anything if, if at all again. But it definitely tells us that we should really look into who these people are, these influencers. you really don't know. there's lots of people who can say things and you may not ever know if it's true and they may be touting these things that this'll work for you. It really is just worth it to do your research. and it's understandable if you wanna go a holistic route, if you want to do functional treatment. But, it just, it really careful With your sources there. It's not just because it looks good on social media does not mean it. Even if the person has credentials,

Erin: 34:15

still look and see what it is. Because like we were saying, like, you know, I keep, my algorithm is like. Probably all charlatans right now, but like, I feel like I'm getting touted, like everything lately, like, oh, join this course, do this. You wanna be younger, you wanna be richer, you wanna be this, you want, you know, like I keep getting all this stuff and it's like, oh my gosh, how do I stop this? but yeah, just be careful of like who you're looking at or who you're following, you know? Or just, be aware that some of these people, they have alternative motives. For sure.

tanya: 34:47

Yeah. And that is the story of Bill Gibson and her horrendous. complete and utter lack of regard for anyone but herself. Yeah. even including her son. Which I do believe she really cares for and loves him, but in the way that only she can, which has limitations to what it seems like. So, anything else we wanna pop in there that we didn't cover? No, I think we

Erin: 35:08

I'm curious what your question is gonna be this week. Uh, you're like, oh no, I have to think of what thought about this.

tanya: 35:14

No, I did think of when we were talking and I'm like, this is probably a pretty tough question, but. Okay. So if you had to for say, 30 days, just for like a health routine, not because you're trying to cure anything, but you had to choose between getting coffee enemas five times a day or drinking up to 14 glasses of to a fruit juice. What would you choose?

Erin: 35:39

say neither?

tanya: 35:40

No, because even though, because the

Erin: 35:40

juices looked so gross, they weren't like, just like, it was like, you know, like, here's your beet juice, here's this. But, I guess I would do the juice and I don't know, I don't think I'd be able to do 14 of them. I think I'd probably max out at three and then just be like, oh gosh, I mean 14.

tanya: 35:58

of sugar. I know it's natural sugar, but it's still a lot of sugar.

Erin: 36:01

it's just like,'cause even that, like your stomach would cramp up it just because I've done like the juicing before, I'm like, I'm gonna, I have buy a, you know, like years ago I'm like, I bought a juicer. I'm gonna do a juice. I couldn't even drink one glass of like fresh done juice with like beet and celery and apple. Like, I've done all that. I'm like, okay, it's gonna be great. It's like. It's so gross. Like when you make it yourself.

tanya: 36:23

Yeah. I think that would be horrible. So maybe we would say like five times a day or something. Then I still think that's pretty bad, but I would go with the juice as well. I think coffee enemas, you have to be careful about in general. And colon cancers are on the rise of people under like in between 30 and 40 in the United States. That's why they lowered the colon ch to 45. and I don't think that that is something necessarily regulated nor healthy and could be very damaging. Yeah. but the juices, yeah, I think are, I think it's not great if for sugar, you know, or whatever, but. I think that would probably be more palatable. So I'd go for that too. hopefully we'd never have to be in that situation. This is just a random Where you're forced it's question. I'll give

Erin: 37:07

you a few thousand dollars if you do this. yeah.'cause I remember when I did try to do, I wasn't on like a juice cleanse. I'd just like, I bought this book, it's called like the Juice in Bible, and I bought this nice juicer, not the ninja one, but just like a, you know, nicer, nice juicer and there's such a pain in the neck to clean. And it was just like, even if you really clean your fruit or vegetable before, it still tastes like dirt. It's still like, you know it's not. Mm-hmm. yeah.'cause I would always be like, yeah, because I'm experience are supposed to be good and do this and Yeah. And then you get like this, you get like, just like, you don't get a full glass. It's a lot of juicing for a little bit of effort and then you're just kind of, it is trying to stomach it down. Yeah. No, thank you. I'd rather like a smoothie.

tanya: 37:49

Yeah. I think that's acceptable in this imaginary situation. Okay. Also, someone else can make it first. Yeah. Maybe I'll just change mine into an

Erin: 37:54

ice cream shake.

tanya: 37:55

Or maybe, maybe we'll just not do it. Yeah, yeah. Overall I'll just have a coffee or just drink some water.

Erin: 38:00

Yeah, drink a coffee. and then I'll just eat some fruit for my juice. Yeah. That's what I'll do.

tanya: 38:05

Yes. that sounds a lot healthier. See balance people, that's what we're talking about. these are just not. Balanced routines. I'm not saying, you know, if you have your own thing, I don't know everybody's situation, but not in these instances. they weren't. we hope you enjoyed that. Let us know what you think, if you have anything to add, follow us on socials. We're on everything, including YouTube. We are there now. send us a review, five star review. Really helps. send it to your friends.

Erin: 38:31

We would love to. Yes. Get to a thousand downloads a day or more. Absolutely. And don't forget, stay wicked and keep your mind well. All right. Have a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Bye-Bye. Bye.