Wicked Psychotherapists

Crossing the Line: The Chilling Tale of The Shrink Next Door

• Erin Gray and Tanya Dos Santos • Season 3 • Episode 13

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In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Erin and Tanya dive into the unsettling true story behind The Shrink Next Door. 

Join them as they discuss the manipulative relationship between psychiatrist Dr. Ike and his patient Marty, exploring how boundaries were crossed and ethical lines blurred. 

From the red flags in their first session to the long-term consequences of toxic influence, Erin and Tanya break down what went wrong and how this story serves as a cautionary tale for therapy practices. 

If you’re fascinated by psychological manipulation and real-life stories of power abuse, this episode is for you!

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You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hat.

Erin:

Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists.

Tanya:

Hey everyone, this is Tanya. So today we have a really interesting, Series to discuss, but also just some characters and different things having to deal directly with, a psychiatrist who is just not a good person or a good psychiatrist. we're gonna be talking about the series, the Shrink Next Door, but also, some of the, characters within this, because this is a true story. there was a podcast that was actually, made from this, prior to the series. it really goes into, a wacky story, but just one that we thought was important to discuss because it really has a lot of elements of, ethics in therapy and. abuse

Erin:

what not

Tanya:

be like the, the how to not do therapy really. Yeah. Yeah. It really is a almost a perfect guide to that. Yeah. Because this is just a wild ride. If you, if you have not like, heard the podcast is really great. Erin and I agree, it's both, it's a little slow. it kind of takes a while to build up to it, and you're a little unsure what's going on, which is. Probably how maybe Marty felt, the main character in this or one of the main characters. maybe it was just kind of a slow burn, so maybe that's why they did it like that. But it's a little tough if you're, not super into it to watch. nevertheless, we braved through it and we want to discuss it in the different characters. first of all, we are absolutely going into elements that if you have not watched this and you don't want any spoiler alerts, then go watch the series or listen to the podcast or read the articles, whatever it is. But probably, as we always say, if you're coming here, you're probably wanting to listen to this and or commentary. So, yeah, there's two main characters. Ike the psychiatrist, and Marty who becomes his patient. and we see that Marty is coming to Ike at a very vulnerable time in his life. His parents have just died. He's had like a relationship breakup. and, Ike is, is is not a good psychiatrist. He doesn't have his best. You know, the best interest for, for his, his patients and, and the real life story. it, it sounds like he, he's kind of done this before.

Erin:

I don't think

Tanya:

series doesn't get into that

Erin:

did listen to the podcast a couple years ago when it first came out, I was just really interested in it because it was done by the journalist who uncovered everything, but I don't think he really goes so far into the background. I can't remember, but I don't think it really goes a lot into the background of Ike. I know Marty is interviewed a couple times in the podcast, and that's fairly interesting.

Tanya:

Yeah. So there's a lot of dynamics here that we just wanted to discuss, you know, in therapy Well, I mean, honestly, it really is a how to, not to do therapy and just to kind of say like, make some commentary and see also this is a different time period, but still I don't think has ever been considered right for any type of therapy. hopefully not, but, this takes place in the early eighties. I think they met in like 1981. That's when, Marty became Ike's patient and you know, just he was kind of kinda lost, lost his parents. He had a family business. Ike you can see from the series that, there's a point where the doctor kind of hones in and says, oh my gosh, I could take advantage of this guy. You could see like a light bulb go off in his head and he starts to infuse himself in Marty, his patience. life and basically start to take over financially as the person who's there, like as his only friend. So he's very isolated and he does this in a very slow, very, he, he really, you know, I think uses a lot of manipulative tactics and, He, he, he gets him, Ike is, is able to get Marty to a point where he thinks that he's his only friend. Right. And he's

Erin:

Well, even in the beginning, like

Tanya:

that he can

Erin:

talking about this show just within the first session. He's like, oh, well let's go for a walk. You know, like walk and talk therapy. You know, that is a thing. People do it. But then it's like he's walking, walking him to another patient's business who runs a frame store, and all of a sudden he does the, like the George Costanza thing where it's like, oh, I don't have my wallet. I don't have money. And then all of a sudden,

Tanya:

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

Erin:

So then Marty's like, oh, well I could pay for the$40. And then Ike instantly is like so sleazy. He is like, oh, well, you know, actually we've gone over our session hour. So this is, you know, it's gonna be like$50 or whatever it would would be. And then he is like, oh, well you actually had to pay for two full hours because it's already 15. You know? So it's very, yeah. For himself, he's, yeah. It's like I'm just

Tanya:

Even though he is running errands for Ike.

Erin:

with celebrities, which is so. Creepy and just how he is just so obsessed with taking photos, either consensual or not with these celebrities. that first interaction is very telling. It's kind of like, okay, let me test the waters. Is he gonna bite? let me reach for my wallet. Oh, I forgot it. Let me just see if this.

Tanya:

Yeah. Let's see if this guy is kind of, is he, that really sets the stage for him because as a psychiatrist and as a person, just who is aware that somebody's coming to him for help and he's telling. his deepest, darkest secrets, and really confiding in him. He knows that he's in a vulnerable state and he's like, okay, what are his boundaries? Is he, is he generous? Is

Erin:

he checks.

Tanya:

like kind of a people pleaser?

Erin:

manipulate.

Tanya:

Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah, he definitely does. And that's where Ike's brain kind of goes. Like, you can see him kind of masterminding, like, oh, how far can I take this? And he takes it far, really, really far. so this relationship that they have spans over about 30 years. he was his patient.

Erin:

yeah,

Tanya:

I believe it was, all of that time technically. and I think it wasn't until a certain point that Marty finally saw, oh my gosh, this person is taking advantage of me and does not care about me. But up until this point, Ike has these tactics, the doctor of. Really slowly, like almost like a parasite, just getting into his Marty's system and being able to say like, okay, first, like for the, the family business that, Marty has, he,

Erin:

Yeah.

Tanya:

he kind of wiggles his way in there and gets a full-time position and gets like, you know, pay and kind of tries to the doctor tries to like, you know, to make decisions and tell him how to run it. Marty's sister is very suspicious of him from the start. But, Ike is

Erin:

Fire

Tanya:

he's like, oh, I gotta Get, her out.'cause she could point out that I'm doing something wrong

Erin:

and that too,

Tanya:

doing something wrong.

Erin:

You know, like if you ever have a therapist or doctor or anyone like that who's doing that run or report them.

Tanya:

Yes, go rep, run and then report them and, and cancel all sessions. Make sure there's nothing, you know, no intertwined relationship. Because that's another thing is, is he starts to infuse himself in every aspect of Marty's life that it's so hard to kind of shut him out. He then Ike then pushes it even further and sees that, oh, in, in Marty's family, you know, they're, they're pretty well off. It seems like. They kind of, you know, come from, some generational wealth that Marty inherited and he, he mainly manages for, you know, kind of the, the family, like his sister,

Erin:

Mm-hmm.

Tanya:

You know, Marty, takes the doctor to this family like vacation home, which is really, really nice. And, Ike sees this as an opportunity to be like, oh, I could throw lavish parties here and I could you know, use this as like basically just tell people it's mine and then have Marty be in the background.'cause Marty's kind of more of a background person. He's not a very social person. He is very introverted. He's very. you know, kind of awkward socially, and he's just like, that's not his thing. He doesn't like to, to be showy. Whereas Ike is very much loves the status, you know, of like being wealthy and having

Erin:

Well, and it seems like his wife probably

Tanya:

know, showing that off and being around people

Erin:

His wife is probably a big player in this too. what I found interesting when they first go to the house in the Hamptons or wherever it was that he asks like, whose house is this? And Ike's, you know, and Marty's like, it's mine. And then he, you know,'cause I think he wants to know like, is it your sister's too? Because he is like, oh no, I bought my sister's share off. You know, just so it's like, okay. So this is, I can totally manipulate this, my patient.

Tanya:

Yeah. Yeah. he's very conniving and really, you know, he's being let into this world that, Marty has total trust in him because not only is he somebody who's working towards making his life better, he's given him this illusion of, oh, I'm coming to for help and my life has improved. Like, look at this, I'm using the vacation home. And, you know, then Ike starts throwing parties and Marty kind of feels like, oh, I have all these parties going on at my house, even though nobody knows who he is, all these people that are coming, they all think Ike owns the house because he's basically

Erin:

has all his

Tanya:

that way,

Erin:

Patients come to, and that's also insane. Like if you think of it like you're having a party and you invite your patients to your party, but he's inviting all his celebrity patients and they're all going because for them, they see that it's normal because he's probably never really had any lines of professionalism with his patients. it's always been like, all right, this is how we interact and this is. What you expect from your psychiatrist?

Tanya:

Yeah, there's no boundaries with him and I wonder with Ike, this is just like kind of my own. Wondering if he was like kind of emulating some psychiatrists or, you know, therapists to celebrities in like LA at the time that maybe he either perceived or maybe it was, I'm not sure where there, there was kind of looser boundaries and maybe there were people who would invite, you know, like it was kind of more considered a working relationship kind of thing as opposed to I think how we would view it. Now, and hopefully most therapists would view it now.

Erin:

Early, early eighties. So chances are he was in school for, you know, med school for psychiatry, probably like in the fifties or sixties. You know, just definitely a male dominated world and who knows who he was influenced by at that time. You know, like who knows what his real reasons were to get into this field, if it was to help people or if it was to have control over, you know?'cause there is a power, definitely a power differential with your patients. And being a psychiatrist, a male psychiatrist.

Tanya:

Yeah. I think there is a point of paternal medicine. That was practiced probably around the sixties, seventies, and before it was probably starting to change maybe in the seventies or something. I don't quote me on that, but that's just, from anecdotal, just watching and what I've heard stories of, the doctor, knows all. You wouldn't question it. usually. Male, usually white male. that paternalistic approach to it. and I think that is something that psychiatry has gone away from and has been able to see different theories of like, it used to be just Freudian psychoanalysis and stuff like that, and branching out to different points of view. But yeah, I think he trained in that and saw that, Ooh, I can have some power in this dynamic. And I think he's kind of, he, must have always had this personality, like there must have been something that shaped it, to be able to think I can manipulate people, I can get what I want out of this. And maybe psychiatry at that time presented as, Ooh, this is a good way to kind of be in the shadows and

Erin:

Because even though they don't really go into his background so much, you can kind of get a glimpse of Ike and maybe he didn't grow up as wealthy as Marty or other people he's trying to surround himself with. So there may have been that resentment and that may have also kind of prompted his decision to have a position or a job that is very powerful. Oh yeah,

Tanya:

Yeah. And, and one that you could certainly manipulate because you are literally being handed somebody's mind and you know, you're supposed to be ethically working with that and not taking advantage of it. But he just went, whoop, what can I take advantage

Erin:

they,

Tanya:

every single scenario? And he absolutely did for this, this poor guy.

Erin:

told me they have millions.

Tanya:

That's the perfect setup for Ike. Ike even talks, Marty into like setting up a non-profit foundation. All the profits end up being set up to be placed with, basically

Erin:

And then we find out too, from articles and the podcast that this isn't the first patient that he's done it to. So he's also had other people switch wills. So this was common practice for him.

Tanya:

Mm. Yeah. Which is really scary. he, he's like a, that's a, that's a predator, right? That's like a financial predator. as well as it's, it's so emotionally abusive what he did to this guy, Marty. and we don't know the specifics of these other cases, but more than likely there was some emotional abuse involved in that. If there was this manipulation to be able to be placed financially in these people's lives I don't really know. Like, I know I couldn't find too much on that specifically. I don't know if there's reasons why there isn't, but it's just, you know, I did see some comments from people who, like, after hearing this story, they, they were saying things like, you know, how could Marty have allowed this to happen? How could he not see it? And I really, this is something that I think is. You know, one of the, the main reasons why we wanted to discuss this is because emotional abuse is something where, you know, he took away all of his safe context, the people that would be secure, like his sister, who, maybe had her own issues, but she had the best intentions for her brother taking all that away, isolating him, making him appear, as the doctor, you know, in kind of, you know, and, and the hero in his life. And also the person who like could guide him, who has it out, for him to like, to be able to say like, okay, I have the best intentions for you. I'm the only person that's looking out for you. I've guided you this far, I've infused my life. In your business. I've, you know, kind of all this other stuff, all these other people, even at the family business who have worked for, Marty and Marty's father, like they're seeing that this guy is no good. but Marty just can't really see it because it's almost like he's being, I think there's this feeling of like, oh, this is the only person that really knows me and sees me the best when, you know, Ike certainly placed himself in that position and he's, really kind of given him this understanding of, I'm the person that knows you and cares about you the most, but. Okay. If you wanna, if you wanna go listen to them, you know, kind of thing. And then Marty is the people pleaser and this took place in so many sectors, so many areas back and forth, you know, that and Marty being, a trusting, genuinely good person who got caught in this at just the right point, that really can spark up this kind of really codependent relationship. That should not exist with your therapist and,

Erin:

and that does

Tanya:

So it's actually not hard to

Erin:

medical professionals or therapists where your patient or your client really does look at you, look to you and in a codependent type of relationship happening. But it's the professional's job to make sure that doesn't happen and to say. Hey, I notice you're really leaning on me a lot, or you're not really wanting to make your own decisions, or you are kind of, you know, stalled right now. How can we help? How can we work through this? Or what can we do instead of, I'm gonna make this phone call for you, or I'm gonna do this, or I gonna do exactly what I say, or, you know, like this and this and this and this. it was very much too. And we've talked about cults in the past too. It is very much like the cult of one,

Tanya:

Like, I think Marty even says something like, I very much became invested in the culture of Ike or the, I can't remember what he said, but it was very well put like the life of Ike or something like, it was very much like that was how much he saw

Erin:

well, if you have somebody who

Tanya:

Ike had set up for him to.

Erin:

Recognize what's happening to you or all of a sudden put words into what you're feeling. It makes you see, feel seen. And you know, Marty had, you know, like, seemed like he had such really severe anxiety. He was having panic attacks, he was frozen at. He thought to do anything, he couldn't really make any decision. And so now you have somebody who's the complete opposite, telling you what to do, not really giving you tools, but just basically the tools are, you call me, I'll do it, or, you know, whatever it is, I'll tell you what to do. So, it was the perfect storm for, manipulation to happen. Unfortunately.

Tanya:

Yeah, absolutely. And, that really goes against what we see as therapy now, which is that the person can be, you know, those are the ones that are supposed to be empowered towards, making. That's our goal is to empower them to see, hey, how, how do you want your life to go and how can you do that? Because if you take that power away. That just kind of, that defeats the purpose of it. And he was really absolutely taking that over and then taking control of it. It was just like double victimization and so, so wrong in that setting. And I, you know, I have had clients and, and I don't know if, if you, you have, it sounds like you have in the past, you know, where, There will be some people who come and they'll say, what do I do? You know, like, tell me what to do with this. I just want someone to tell me what to do. And you know, if you give them an answer and say, okay, break up with your boyfriend. Right. You know, if you do that, and then they realize that, you know, and they do that. They follow that right. And they realize, oh my gosh, that's not what I really wanted to do. Who are they gonna be upset at? And then who are they going to start to feel more confused about, you know, understanding them like you and themselves. And That's not what you want in the end. And it's not that we don't want to help you, but

Erin:

I mean, there are so many times when you're like, all right, I wanna tell you the answer. I really would love to be able to tell you, but I can give you a couple ideas, or let's talk it out. Or why do you wanna go this way? Or what do you, you know, so I'm not gonna leave them blank, you know, like blank and not help them. But I'm not, I'm not able to really tell them. What to do because it's in the end, it's their life. They're doing it unless they're gonna harm themselves or harm someone else or something like that, or there's other factors. But otherwise we, we are there to guide and help them realize. Like with Marty, I don't even think there's really any tools that we're there to help him with his anxiety, except there were the distraction of his psychiatrist.

Tanya:

Right. Yeah. And like kind of being his friend and kind of making him out to be like the hero, the person who's solving all his issues, which he, you know, of course, as somebody who's. Hurt and anxious, he's gonna be like, oh my gosh, this person's really helping me. Like, he kept saying, no, you've helped me so much. want you to have the right amount of money, and I really wanna help you. No, I wouldn't be anywhere without you. he really feels that way because you know, that's something that a friend had done out of love. And care because they really wanted to help this person. That's maybe a different story, but where it comes from as a therapist and as someone who's supposed to be helping him gain those tools

Erin:

and there was something that was said in like in one of the articles or podcasts or show or something that when Marty had, his, Marty had to have hernia surgery and he was in the hospital for like a week or so or whatever. And I guess he didn't really have any many visitors and definitely did not have Ike and his wife visit. And he had really, that had been the catalyst that woke him up because he had thought, wait a minute, this person's been in my life. And he actually thought he was his friend.'cause he even said like my friend, you know, like, so I guess we're not friends. So that's kind of the. Eyeopener, which they never were friends, you know, this was his psychiatrist, but he also manipulated Marty so much that he is like, oh yeah, we're friends, but pay me. You still had to pay me hourly. You still have to do all this. What you just said made me think of when Marty was in the hospital, like he ended up having his hernia surgery and he came to the realization, he even said that he realized Ike wasn't his friend because Ike didn't go to the surgery or the recovery because Marty was in the hospital for like a week or two Yeah, he didn't visit him at all, or his wife or Ike's wife didn't visit. So as soon as Marty got out of the hospital, he said he ended up taking them both out of the will. And I guess that's, you know, I guess probably canceled them off of everything and ended up contacting, I don't know if he contacted a lawyer or contacted the state. But either way it was like, that was the realization because before that, I think Marty really believed that they were friends. But in Ike's mind, of course it was always transactional. It was never friendship.

Tanya:

yeah, for sure. I think that was his breaking point. And that's where we see at the beginning, where it opens up in the series, where Marty is just breaking everything. He's upset because he realizes, oh my gosh, I've been used all these years and. This is not a true friendship this was wrong, what he was doing, and this person does not care about me as a person. Nevermind all the things that he did to intermesh, being friendship and somebody who is your therapist, and all these other things that are just confusing and weird. But he was openly just. Hurting him and not even considering him. not even in the slightest. So I think it just broke him. And he just, that opening scene of him breaking the, the basketball, hoop the glass behind it, and then just ripping things up and just being upset. That's, that's the result of it. And yeah, and that's where he, starts to file with the Department of Public Health, you know, for licensure and saying like, this guy has done wrong. And then also, yeah, it stops being his patient. He writes a formal letter to stop being his patient, which is crazy'cause that's 30 years after the start of their working together.

Erin:

Even manipulating Marty into.

Tanya:

victim,

Erin:

So like when Marty's at one party, he's like, Hey, I don't know if you ever thought of being an industrial, psychologist. And he is like, oh, I've never done this. But then all of a sudden he is like, oh, wait a minute. I can charge every single person that works there plus, which, that's not how consultation would work, but it's like totally manipulation. And it's like, all right, so now he's even his wife who seems very shady is like, I don't know if that's how that works, but he finds a way to manipulate everything. And Marty, he's like, oh, Marty will pay it.

Tanya:

He's an opportunist in life, through and through transactional, does not have care. Whereas, you know, Marty is the total opposite. He cares about people, he wants to make sure that they're okay. he has a lot of difficulty when he goes to Ike, but he is someone who is a kind, good, caring person, almost to his detriment, you know? but also he was with someone who should not have taken advantage of that at all. and we do learn, you know, with the, in this being a true story, believe it or not, you know, I'm sure there's some liberties taken in the. Series. And then the po, well, the podcast probably represents it, well. But, that's the, the board, the board of, that holds, the licensure for, for Ike asks him to, to basically revoke it, is like, Hey, we're asking for it back in

Erin:

so I think he said

Tanya:

not too long ago.

Erin:

in interview that Marty said like over 30 years of his life has been like held ho hostage. Because of this. So now he's like finally able to live.

Tanya:

Yeah. And it's really, upsetting to think that somebody that you cared about, that you led into your life. Not only as a friend and somebody you thought really cared about you, because I mean, he was, he was staying in like the guest house of his own house that he had inherited, and he didn't really seem to mind. He's a very kind of, simple person. He is not materialistic. he doesn't care about, hobnobbing with the snobs and, anything like that. Whereas Ike's out there doing that left and right, and he's just realizing it's all coming. At him when he realizes it in that moment and probably slowly building up, but like really coming to the forefront of his brain. Like I have just been taken advantage of so badly by a provider, by somebody who should have had my best interests, you know, at heart. But not only that as, as a person who's been solely the person in my life that I've let into my life, and trusted and really it's just. It's, heartbreaking to think of that because that's a long recovery into Marty being able to trust anyone probably again. but yeah, the, the license is revoked from, from Ike, which is great as of 2021. I know he, he appealed it. It said, we don't know really what he is doing now, but probably running some scheme.

Erin:

No, just kidding.

Tanya:

something shady, right? Yeah.

Erin:

He could,

Tanya:

we are not saying, I mean, maybe he actually probably, yeah.'cause we wouldn't need, yeah.

Erin:

Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah. And we are not saying life coaches are shady or you know, like not all of'em, you know, but we're just saying that he probably, that that is really trendy right now to do and he could totally try and run some stuff in that model as well.

Erin:

Did you see that office?

Tanya:

a similar way that he's been doing it.

Erin:

but it's like how he set it up and you don't know if it's purposeful. So where everyone sits, it's like you get a plant in your face. So it's almost like you're controlled by the environment.

Tanya:

Yeah. It's really, it's his control. It's really, you know, that's, that's what he really wants to psychologically, he goes, he goes deep in there and that's what's so dangerous about him is he, he's aware of these things and he is given a license for these things, but you're to do good with it, right? You're to help people with it. And he is absolutely taking advantage of it to just say, what can I get? What can I squeeze from these people? so he is not a good therapist folks. and he's not, he's not, he's not a good person, like at all. He doesn't seem to be from the way, you know, represented here, but he is not a good therapist. So if you start to notice this and, and hopefully I think we all know this, right? I think there is actually a time where therapy was not really talked about as much as

Erin:

Well, and also

Tanya:

where this

Erin:

you know, like it's probably especially a psych psychiatrist different than a therapist, you know, like, you know, a traditional therapist. You're like, you know, like you piri while he went to med school. It's, you know, like he's referred to by. My clergy or my rabbi or you know, my sister recommended him. You know, like, so there's a lot of factors where it's like, well, this, this person is in power and they, they must know more than I do or know more than people in my life.

Tanya:

Yeah. Yeah. There's a power dynamic. When you go to anybody, you know, you go to a medical doctor, you go to a therapist, you go to a teacher, you go to a nurse. You know any of those positions where you are being. it's usually a one-sided relationship. You know, this person is exposing things about themself or you're able to, know things or examine things that you, the practitioner has the duty to be professional about that and hold that as. Sacred and understand that you're trying to do good with that. That is part of the extreme ethical violation that,

Erin:

and that's one thing a lot of my clients will hear all the time is I always am like, be your own health advocate. You know, like just whether it's your physicians, whether it's your therapist, whether whoever it is, you're allowed to question, you're allowed to. Fire them. You're allowed to look for a different referral no matter what.'cause that's what I always say too. I'm like, especially the first session or so, I'm like, you know, of course I'd love to love you to stay with me, but you have the right to find a different one. You have a right to almost like shop around and if there's ever a point, you be your own health advocate, and that goes in every aspect of your life.

Tanya:

Absolutely. and not to say that you, Should be on the lookout for this. I do not think that this is something with the amount of exposure we have with professionals now and the amount of knowledge that we have, I don't think this would be as hidden for as long as it was possibly. I would hope not, at this time, to be able to say, I think that's a great point. that you also have the right to say, you know, this is not working. Or maybe I just don't click with this person, or maybe I don't feel like this person has my best interests at heart, or, I just don't like this person. You know, like if that's something you just can't get over and it's interfering with your care, that is something. You can advocate for. and I agree, I do the same thing with my clients. we've all have to have a hard skin about that. Right.

Erin:

Yeah. And sometimes you stay with

Tanya:

and sometimes it just doesn't click.

Erin:

like your me, sometimes you stay with them just because you feel like, oh, well this is who I picked, but you don't have to. And same with the nice thing about therapy too. Like there's psychology today, there's good therapy, there's other things that you can look for a therapist.

Tanya:

Yeah, and I agree. I think that's part of it, is that the timing, you know, in the eighties and the nineties and even probably in the early two thousands, this was not, those sources were not as available. It didn't seem like you had so many choices. It also wasn't talked about as much, You know, I do think this is, you know, I think we almost have an over availability of sources that, you know, kind of like, oh, do you need an appointment tomorrow? needs, but I'm saying like, it's, it's talked about so much. It's used as advertisements on every single podcast and everything, you know, like YouTube, Anders and everything. So, I think that this is a, an absolute tale of how to not conduct patient and provider interactions, of any sort. And to never be like,

Erin:

don't like Ike.

Tanya:

be like Ike. You know, it says be like Ike. Don't be like Ike. Don't, don't do it. Marty, the real life Marty is you had said he's, he's like, he has a girlfriend and they're, they're going to Thailand or maybe living in Thailand

Erin:

he is happier than he is been.

Tanya:

So he seems to be, that's great. That's really good. it's happy to hear, but. so many things that just, you know, like we could feel all of our ethical drillings kind of go, oh, no, no, no. when we were watching or listening to this. so yeah, this is, a Very sad story, but in the end, it sounds like, Marty was able to reclaim himself. He did unfortunately, lose a lot of time to that and learned a very, very hard lesson.

Erin:

Probably not. I mean, even the board or whatever said that,

Tanya:

I don't know.

Erin:

has remorse or wants to change.

Tanya:

So that is that, we thought this was a very interesting story. Of course it relates to mental health and just ethical considerations and extraordinary violations of them, but also just discussing therapy in general. So, we thought it would be a good, good topic. Are you ready for a fun question?

Erin:

Oh,

Tanya:

Okay, so I'm not going to ask about that stuff because that stuff is just pure ethical violations and I don't wanna ask about any of that. So, if you could go to live in any country, in the near future where, you know, like without, you know, money, jobs, things like that being a problem, where would you wanna go

Erin:

but I've always been. Fascinated with, it's not that exciting like with Nova Scotia, you know, like in Canada, because I love whale and I believe there's puffins there. So I think that that has always been something, I don't know if I'd wanna live there full time.'cause I think it would get really cold in the winter. So I don't, I don't, you know, but that's somewhere that's always fascinated me for some reason. I think it's mostly the whales and possible

Tanya:

Yeah.

Erin:

Because I'm already in the tropics, I live pretty hot, so I like where I am now. Yeah. My summer Nova Scotia place. What about you?

Tanya:

You could have like a summer, winter thing going on. Yeah. Yeah. That would be cool. I, the first place that comes to mind is like Norway. I, I think that that would be,

Erin:

Mm-hmm.

Tanya:

think they practice like hooga over there, which is the way of cozy living. I think they have beautiful views, very simple. yet I think, effective ways of living over there. I think there's a nice kind of introverted culture, but also very rich in,

Erin:

That sounds neat. Maybe I'd visit you

Tanya:

and folklore and stuff that I just find, fascinating,

Erin:

we're very, yeah, we had to bundle up.

Tanya:

We both have very cold, cold places to go to. yeah. Oh, in the Northern Lights too. It's a very cool phenomenon, anything else

Erin:

a therapist or a psychiatrist like this, or you feel like it's. On the ethical line, it's okay to quit and find someone else.

Tanya:

Absolutely. And if you feel like they are just, this is their practice and they're maybe doing damages to other people, you may wanna look into

Erin:

Yeah.

Tanya:

So, let us know what you think. This was really interesting. Go check it out. the Shrink Next door, I believe is on Amazon Prime. Okay. and yeah, the podcast is on, I think anywhere where you get, it's on Wondery, I think. but I think you can get it anywhere, right. On any. Type of podcast platform. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapist and on Facebook. We are the wicked psychotherapist,

And don't forget, stay wicked and keep your mind well. All right. Have a great week. Bye-bye. Bye.

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Erin

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Tanya Santos

Host