The Mr. Rogers Effect: How a TV Icon Revolutionized Childhood Compassion

What made Mr. Rogers more than just a beloved TV host? 

In this re-released episode, we uncover how his quiet revolution in children’s television shaped emotional intelligence, mental health, and even modern therapy.

From his groundbreaking approach to big emotions and tough topics to the science-backed power of his calming presence, Mr. Rogers left a legacy that still influences therapists, educators, and parents today. 

Join us as we explore his mindful methods, the psychology behind his success, and why his message is more vital now than ever.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard. Hey, everyone. This is Tanya. Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist. Our topic today, which is Mr. Fred Rogers, the show we wanted to dedicate a show to him and episode to him because he is, we both are big fans of, were big fans as little Erin and little Tanya, we enjoyed him and you know, we, we really appreciate, wanted to highlight him as a champion for children's voices, advocating for, you know, their. Educational, emotional, and points of view, I think, in, in this world, and how to navigate scary topics, how to navigate things just as a child, and not knowing what to do with big emotions or small emotions, which are themes that are now pretty common nowadays, but he was a trailblazer in his own time, for sure, he really was a huge part of that movement, and he was so compassionate and so, I think quiet in the way that he did that. And I just really admire him. I've always admired him. I've always found him to be a comfort. I hid that, as I've mentioned. I'll talk about that more, why I hid my admiration for him. But I thought we'd kind of get into it by, you know, starting to talk about like, what were your, what's been your experience with Mr. Rogers? Like, you know, as a child, maybe, you know, as you grew up, what, how did you experience his show, his influence? I was trying to think of what I feel like the show was on was it on like twice a day like maybe I feel like it was like morning it maybe they did show it twice like maybe in the morning and then when you got home from school I think it depends on what because I remember no honestly because I remember as a child always watching in the morning and then. When in grade school or, you know, wherever, watch it in the afternoon too, but, so maybe it was on twice, but I do remember just being completely immersed in it, like when it was on, just not really worrying about the noise of, you know, whatever else is happening because the way he just kind of knew how to draw you in for that half hour or however long it was, it just felt Like you were part of it, you're part of the field trips that he's going on, you're part of, you know what the whole set looks like, you memorize like the little stop sign thing at the front of the room, you know where the fish tank is, you know where trolley is going to be, you know what, oh wait, now it's time he's going to go to, you know, the make believe place because he's put a trolley on the tracks, you know, it's very, it's exciting, and It's also familiar too. So and that also was very calming for me. Yeah, they're sure. Yeah, he certainly was someone I think that could be, you know, as you know, we both have talked about we didn't come from the most stable households and I think being able to have an influence in your life, even if it's on Television where you could watch at whatever points we watched. I think I remember it in the morning. I don't know. Maybe it changed, but whatever points we knew it was on, we knew what we were getting. We knew the routine of it. And that is stabilizing. It's calming when it's someone that feels safe. And I think that's really what I remember just feeling so safe with him and hiding that from everyone around me because my family members kind of, I think, found him to be a little bit maybe like childish or kind of not their style. I think some words like, I hate even saying this because it hurts my heart, like corny, you know, were used for him, but I just, I loved him. I instantly connected. And I remember just feeling like he is a kindred spirit. Like, I get this. Like, I didn't feel understood as a child. It's probably a lot of us. And he, I felt like, oh my gosh, he sees these emotions, he, these things that I can't express that they're there. And he would walk in with his cardigan and, which is why I'm wearing one today. It's very much in the, how I think of Mr. Rogers and it, you know, he just was absolutely a beacon of stability and calm for me. I think this is probably the way a lot of kids who Even if they didn't have dysfunctional families, maybe just felt around him, they just felt validated in their perspective, you know, but for me, it was like in the chaos of my home, that was like, Oh my gosh, there's somebody who exists out there. Yeah, you're being a scene. Maybe it was made up, but yeah, but I, I really just like was like, Oh, it's there, something's there, but it was really, truly just so validating, so connecting for me. That is part of the many things that he brings, right? He really, he brought not just a generation of children, these validating feelings, these ways to express your emotions, making it okay to say, Hey, I'm scared about this. And what does this mean? And rather than, you know, shielding kids from this, you know, and making it even more of a scary monster with big topics, he would Sit down and thoughtfully explain on their level, right? And it just was like it wasn't just for one generation. He was you said he was on since the 60s, you know Yeah, thousand. Yeah a lot of generations of kids. Yeah I know when I was watching the documentary that they talked about like one of the I don't know if it was one of the First episodes. I don't know when he Started, but he ended up talking about Robert Kennedy's assassination and, you know, so they explained like they had one of the puppets say, like, talk, I don't know if it's Daniel Tiger talk about what is assassination and. Talking and it was just very it was an open conversation because it was probably really scary because I'm sure the kids their parents probably had The TV the news on 24 hours, you know Like they were probably like non stop watching the news and it was probably really scary for these children to View and you know and here they go to mr. Rogers for their safety and for the answers Yeah, yeah, which reminds me of one of his quotes that I know is like kind of passed around a lot these days, but I so, so lean on that when it's, you know, his, I guess it's some, I'm gonna butcher this, but it's something along the lines of, you know, my mother always told me when things get scary to look for the helpers, there's always a helper, you know, and it just kind of is like, It's that feeling of I always connected with that, you know, and saying like, Oh, can I, maybe I could be that for someone else because I understand that other side of it. And I think. In his own life, that's why he became the person he became. Yeah. Because we, as we were talking about, he was very much, he was very bullied and called some awful names and, uh, you know, teased for his weight and didn't really seem to have many friends and he kind of would play piano a lot, spend time with his grandfather, you said. Yeah. He was actually, yeah. No, I was gonna say, and he played with puppets and stuffed animals and he just created his own little world. His own make believe, play with make believe, right? And that's probably, that's where his, you know, empathy, his compassion, and his creativity really came in to recognize, hey, if kids had this, you know, this is something I know could be valuable for kids that do feel this way and that don't have this validating force and need this. Right. So he really had a very strong drive for that. And, and it showed absolutely he was, I think, down to his basing characters on in his real life in the land of make believe on the puppets and everything like he, he based some of the characters like Mr. McFeely, the postman was based after his grandfather, you know, and some of the puppets were like, even like Daniel, the tiger was based on his very shy, quiet side. Yeah. Which was, I thought that was so interesting, like, hearts, hearts therapy, like, internal family systems, even before it was even really there, that, you know, like, really talked about. So, yeah, so, and it's interesting, too, because he would use Daniel Tiger, be like, I'm scared, I'm shy, or I need a hug. And, you know, because he's like, okay, because he, Daniel Tiger was very shy, but he kind of knew what he wanted, and he was able to express it. And, yeah. So, Mr. Roger was. Probably having that voice of little him and knowing that maybe there's a child out there. That was really shy I didn't know how to voice or didn't know what to say or didn't have a way to Feel safe ask him for a hug or saying I'm scared Yeah, and it was you know, it's so because that character so appeals it definitely would have appealed to me, but it was odd the voice really actually like Kind of I didn't respond to it. I guess I'm gonna say yeah, because it would kind of be like very high pitched and yeah And he would be kind of curled into him and I probably didn't like it because that's probably how I was You know what? I mean? I don't like that about myself. Yeah, that's interesting. Yes, sir. It resonated with you and it probably Felt too familiar and was probably a little aggravating like wait about what why? Why do I notice this, or what is this, what, what about Daniel Tiger, it seems. Yeah, I didn't really like, like it to be pointed out, I guess, you know, but I think I probably, I, of course, I probably related to him. I just was like, not wanting to admit. It's so interesting because he created this show where he, there's so many elements to it. There's groundbreaking elements where he discussed big topics. He engaged in things where he was discussing big issues of the time, like racism, nuclear war, assassinations, you know, big things that might be scary for kids to understand what's going on in the world. And he really gave a voice to it and was very revolutionary in a lot of things that he put forth on his show. Yeah, he's very big on helping the kids understand acceptance too, even having children with disabilities on as guests and so then other kids watching it can also see and be exposed to maybe someone that looks like them or maybe someone that looks different than them, which is so wonderful that he did that. Yeah, you know, it's so interesting you say that because when you said that I flashed back to this particular episode or I don't know if I saw like a. Like it was like on YouTube or something and it was replaying recently, maybe, so maybe I'm having a recent memory, but I do remember that episode where he had invited a child on who I believe had, I'm not quite sure what, you know, what kind of disability it was, it doesn't matter, you know, but I know she was in a wheelchair. And I'm sorry, he was in a wheelchair and he, you know, just the way Mr. Rogers talked to him, it just, because, you know, as a child, I was, I just kind of didn't know, like, I didn't have much experience with, you know, like, I don't think I had anybody, any kids who were like in a wheelchair or had like kind of a disability that was very visible in that way at that point, and I do remember thinking like, Wow, this is such a nice interaction, and he's just talking to this boy, and they're just having fun, and it like, it so worked on me, you know, it so was like, oh, this is so relatable, and I was like, oh my gosh, oh, okay, it like really clicked with me, and the way he talked to children, I'm sure that resonated with so many people. Yeah. I was just so amazed by that because I was like, wow, like he, it seemed like to me there was something that was not like a, maybe a barrier in conversation. I mean, I had my own barriers in conversation, but like, I mean, in general and just knowing people, you know, that I may have been like kind of maybe shied away from that. Cause I didn't know what to say, but the way he approached it was just so personable and he got down on like, you know, he always got down on the child's level. Always, like he was always very like, you know, talking to them and I just. I just loved that. It was just so, so wonderful. Yeah, and there's something to that too, by actually kneeling down or sitting in a chair, so you're level with, instead of being this big, huge, towering adult. So often, you know, like, adults don't realize that. It's like, it's very intimidating. You have this big person, like, talking to you or yelling at you, or, for sure, and you have this very calm person getting down and singing a song with you or looking at you in eye contact. It's, it feels different. Yeah, which is huge. It reminds me of, because I used to work exclusively with children at one point in community mental health, and I had, I'm going to shout out my supervisor, Alice. I don't know if she listens to, she's amazing. Like, she is like a Mr. Rogers. Like, she just is, uh, like, in her own right, she is She also wrote a book. I'm just saying like, she's amazing. Oh, wow. And shout out to Alice. Yeah, she's a really amazingly talented, cool, nice, just intelligent, wonderful person, you know, never mind therapist, but she really taught me so much about Children and about getting down on their level and she would always reference Mr. Rogers and I was always like, I would be like, I love Mr. Rogers too, but I, I don't think I'd ever made those connections that like, Oh, we brought this into psychology and into like children's mental health and the way she would, you know, kind of teach me those lessons. It taught me how much of an influence Mr. Rogers. It really was on understanding children and getting down on their level. Yeah. And, and we talked about this before we started recording, just even how he studied child development and he followed like some really big name child, people in child development and psychologists while he was planning the show and just like, how many people do that? Not very many, you know, like just to be like, okay, I want to make sure I'm really understanding and I want to get schooled. It's just really humbling. It really is. That's yeah, that's a great way to put it. It really is. I mean, and, and especially coming from the generation like he came from, I don't think that was very prevalent. He probably came from a more, and I'm not completely positive, but maybe more of a like children should be seen and not heard kind of generation. He was also an ordained Presbyterian minister. And I don't, I am very ignorant in the fields of that and understanding that, but just the fact that he kind of had a more like conservative. Ish background, you know, upbringing, but the way he was able to see that. And probably likely in his own childhood and to see what was needed, he developed this empathy, this understanding, this compassion. He had kind of all those key elements and the, you know, the intelligence to really kind of say, Hey, this is what's needed. This is what's needed to be shown for kids and you know, let's do this better. He was a huge advocate for children's public television because he wanted to make quality programming. As you pointed out, and you said this, he was not. Big fan of television at all, but he wanted to make good. He wanted to use a platform like television He recognized the importance of the platform and how it could be quality and good man. Did he make good on that promise? I mean he really and he advocated in Congress and got like a A huge grant for it for PBS to do this and kept it running until 2000. Yeah. I mean, and how unheard of too, because it seems very backwards, doesn't it? Because most people say, okay, well, I want to become an actor, an actress, or I want to produce, or I want to do this because I love TV and I want to be part of it and I want the spotlight. Yeah, where Mr. Rogers was like, I love the I want to help children and I, I love people and I don't love what TV is doing to people or what people are being exposed to, especially the children. There's no children television, you know, at that time, you know, like, I don't know what was on TV in the late or middle 60s, you know, when he started, it's, you know, Yeah, I mean, I remember my mom talking about Howdy Doody and Clarabelle the Clown or whatever, you know, whoever it was, I think, I don't know who, yeah, or I don't know who it was, and I remember my mom talking that she went, she was so excited because she loved the show, and it was horrible, like she said it was so mean, like they, they were so, yeah, I guess they, they like, We're not very kind to the kids in the audience and they pulled her up and she was so excited to meet Claribel and Howdy Doody and they just made her feel really bad and she just remembered she felt that feeling and it was just really embarrassing and just really, I can't remember what they did, but I just remember she felt really shame and which is really sad. They definitely weren't validating to kids. Yeah, yeah, which is sad because you picture like this little like. You know, seven or eight or however old she was, you're all just all excited, but oh my gosh, I got to meet this, you know, I'm going to be, you know, meet this people because they had, I think before that it was like always the mickey mouse club and stuff. So they had some of that, but yeah, and for mr rogers to say, you know what, I want something different. I want to have the kids to be exposed to something different. So he probably either saw that or didn't see it and just realize that something else had to be. For the kids of the next generation. I know one thing he always Said and I think in some of his songs or something It's just like, you know that everyone is basically everyone's special and you know, like we you know that everyone has unique qualities and things to contribute to whether it's You know, whatever their trait, you know, there are things that they might be good at or learn that they want to do. It's, which again, a lot of other television shows probably don't show that or encourage that. Yeah, for sure. I think he was just such a, you know, he was a trailblazer. He really was. And that, I mean, to really come from all that, like you, you described, you know, and just even from, that's just your mom's perspective, which is like, Horrific in and of itself, but imagine, like, there's probably a lot of people who, a lot of kids who have that experience and that's the way they were made to feel and like their introduction to the world and like who you are as a person, you carry that with you. And he's saying, no, let's add value to that. Let's see that they have value and they have something to carry in this world and make this a more compassionate place. And some people may see that, and there's probably been others that said he's bringing up a generation of lazy, coddled. Students or something close to that and butchering that quote, but you know, and I don't agree with that because I think he was trying to say everybody has value. I'm not, he's, I don't think he was trying to say, Oh, everybody deserves a trophy at soccer. I think he was trying to say, some people are going to get trophies at soccer, but you know what, you could paint a picture maybe, or you can help that person, you know, like everybody kind of has something they can offer. What's wrong with that? Because everybody does have something they can offer. Everybody does have a gift. So see, one person is great at soccer, one person can make the banner, one person can, maybe they're really good at making snacks, or cooking, or cheering, or, you know, like, or just being a good friend. So everybody does have something to offer and Sometimes we're not able to see that as children. Yeah, especially if it's not nurtured. And I think that's what he was trying to do. He was trying to spark that so that it can be kept and to have that nurtured so people could have that belief in themselves that I think so often he probably witnessed, he probably maybe felt, you know, or maybe saw like other children losing that or how easy it is to lose, you know, if you don't have like the right supports or even just the right belief in yourself or the right. You know, path, whatever it is, in any sense of the word, you can definitely lose that. Right. And to me, that is, you know, he was trying to empower people to say, hey, you have something to offer, run with it. Right. He wasn't trying to say, you're special, just sit on that and do nothing. I don't agree with that. Everyone will come to you. Yeah, yeah. No, I really don't see that at all. And I take offense to that. So no, I don't, I really don't because he truly was a very important part of my life. I mean, he was really just someone that understands you, even if it was on TV, even if I felt like, Oh, maybe it's kind of made up, maybe it's not, but it just kind of was like, Oh, there was a little access point there that I could have that I just didn't have anywhere else. And that can only imagine for how many other kids felt that way. Yeah. You know, and honestly, I loved his, we need to talk about his cardigans. I mean, he was, he had a stellar collection of just beautiful cardigans that his mother made, all those cardigans. I love that. I think that's so cute. What talent too. Yeah. And I know we were talking earlier too. It's funny that it's almost like, People complain that he made a generation or whatever, all these people that are very soft or feel like they feel could be special, but I think what he really brought is he made generations of therapists and social workers wear cardigans all the time and probably teachers, too. Yep, educators and healers and, you know, probably like you said, like nurses and. People who are, like, in caregiving roles that really see, okay, this value is in helping other people and also making sure I know I'm valued as well. Like, how much of that is in our practice and therapy? Like, it's every day that we say, hey, make sure you're valuing yourself, you're filling up your own cup, and then You know, check on other people as well. I, and he really stressed that point in so many different ways. And putting on the cardigan is almost like giving yourself a little hug too. So it's like taking care of yourself. It is. That is why, I think that's why people, maybe that's why therapists like it. Maybe that's why. People like it. I always thought it's such a cozy little thing to like, you can kind of, you know, hide in it, but you can also kind of wear it as like, I have this. Yeah. It's a, like, it's something safe. It makes you feel a little more confident. Yeah. Yeah. It's very versatile and it's comforting. And I think that is, it was just so symbolic for me when he would go into his closet. I was just like, How does he choose? Yeah, I wonder like what he, is it like based on his feelings? Oh, and I remember when I got older, I really like, I thought, I want a collection of cardigans and I'm gonna base it on my feelings. Oh. Like that's what I'm going to do. And so that's why for this reminded me of like, it's soft and it's light, but it's also got a color that's very like neutral, comforting that I think. Really, I don't know. It just reminds me of Mr. Rogers. Yeah, I feel like he, I feel like he tended to go towards the light brown and I feel like the yellow. I saw the, I feel like I felt, saw the yellow and the orange a lot too, like the. And the red. Yeah, usually how that like the red kind of was how he was portrayed a lot in pictures. Probably just because it's a picture, but I mean, I mean, and I think that's probably why, you know, therapists, we need kind of that comfort because we're dealing with a lot of stuff. We also want to feel comfortable and feel settled and take on other people's, you know, take off our uniform when we're done and leave it. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, leave it there. Yeah, because we have to, right? Yeah. Yeah, and that's probably true for other professions and just people, you know, who really identify with him, right? Maybe that's what part of his thing too is like, okay, I'm gonna take off my dress shoes and put on, you know, my Keds and put on my cardigan. It probably, and then switch back or whatever he did, but it probably was so, all right, so. I'm going to just leave it at the office or leave it at the studio. Yeah, exactly. Like he could kind of go into different modes. It felt probably good for him. It felt like a good transition point, which is something I talk a lot about with clients. I always will recommend if people are having work life balance issues, what's your ritual between, you know, going from work? If you work from home, do you shut the door? Do you take off your cardigan, you know, and I'll, I'll give them an example and say, I, I, okay. Take off my cardigan. If I'm wearing one, I shut the door. I make sure, you know, everything is kind of closed and in a particular order because that makes me feel like it's done, you know? And I think that's kind of what he was, you know, maybe saying about kind of this is how you feel good in routines. Yeah. And that's, that is so important. That's something I talk about too, especially with people who are working from home. Because if you're driving to work, you do have that time to grab and get your coffee or listen to a podcast or call friends or, you know, you might have that half hour, an hour or whatever your commute time is, but a lot of times when you're working from home, it's like, uh, I'm not even going to take a shower. I'm just going to go into my, with my pajamas, or I might just have a coffee. But so I always talk to my clients, well, why don't you take your shower? Why don't you get ready? Why don't you go do something in between? So you're not just going straight to work and same as in the backside too, what do you do at the end? How do you transition? So you're not just closing the laptop and then be like, Oh, hello everybody. I'm off of work instead of being like, let me give myself a little bit of a transition time or space. Do you walk around the house? Do you take a drive? Do you, you know, listen to a show or a podcast or do something for a little bit to help your brain transition? Yeah, absolutely. I don't even think he talked about that. He demonstrated it. Yeah. And that was really something that I think stuck with me. A lot of people and it was, you know, for us, you know, the stability felt really good. I love trying to establish routines, you know what I mean? That's where I got it from, but I loved that. I was like, that makes things feel contained and I don't have all this chaos around me and the anxiety can be contained. What one thing I really liked when I was reading about him and watching the documentary and stuff is they said that he was very purposeful about being slow and leaving blank spaces. Of silence, which is so interesting because in shows today, it's like fill every spot, you know, make a little zip in there and have clapping and everything has to be brighter. We have to do all this stuff. And especially for kids, they feel like, okay, it needs to be a lot of stuff. It can be really overwhelming filled with something. It needs to be. It can be very overwhelming and. He's very purposeful, like maybe he'll have a turtle on the ground and just, let's just watch it walk, or he's going to change the light bulb on the stoplight thing he has in the front of his little room, and we're going to watch it, and we're just going to sit there, yeah, I love that, it's like mindfulness, he was teaching mindfulness, like be present in the moment, and he was also teaching, you know, again, those are very important tenets in therapy, like the purposeful pause, the silence, using silence as mindfulness. Hmm, that can be, you know, a way of listening to see what is a client really wanting to fill that space with. Are they overly You know, uh, anxious in the silence and why is that? And that that's a huge tool in therapy. Yeah. And I know we're drawing conclusions that we're not saying like it was a direct maybe bridge there, but it certainly is. There's some great lessons that, yeah. I mean, translate, I'm learning about Mr. Rogers. It does sound like a lot of his things. It wasn't a lot of happenstance. Like he, he seemed like everything was very. Purposeful and well thought out. He was a very intelligent person and I do feel like he was, okay, well, how can I reach the child this way? How can I really let them? See and hear, or if they might have questions, maybe they're asking it out loud, so they'll have time to just really understand what's happening through the pauses. Absolutely considered the child's point of view, and that is so, it's just so different from that world of where you're You know, when you said your mom felt shamed and just kind of bad, you know, right? It was very much taking into consideration how would they feel? How would they process it as a child in a child brain? And, you know, from their point of view, just still learning about the world. They're not small adults. They're children. Yeah. And sometimes we forget especially like you'll see like different ages and people forget like oh well they should know this or they should do this or blah blah blah it's okay for them to watch this even though it might be an R or MA or it's like they're children they're very impressionable and. It's okay to have them watch children television and it's even these days, you know It's there's so much that children are getting exposed to that Not only shouldn't they but their brains are not developed and this is the time to nurture it. Yeah For sure. And I think that with such a culture now of like, I don't know, childhood sometimes doesn't even exist with social media and how many things people can access and wanting to kind of say, Oh, I'm, you know, I'm, you know, more mature, or, you know, I want to be doing this, I want to be doing that, because they're seeing other kids doing this. And they think it's kind of like childhood doesn't really, that kind of like, innocence in childhood is not As present, you know, at this point, and I think that's really what Mr. Rogers wanted to preserve. Yeah, which, I mean, I hope we get to a point where it becomes normalized again, which, you know, like you start, see, I've been seeing different things about how finally they're saying, like, Oh yeah, social media is not good for kids, or this is not good for kids. And that which, you know, most therapists and most people have probably known it, going back to Mr. Rogers, he knew the things that children should be seen or should be exposed to at certain ages. Yeah, he had a very good awareness of, like, child development in a, I think, a very healthy, appropriate way, and knowing that, okay, they're going to hear about this nuclear war, and what does that mean, and he did a whole series with that, what he said with Bobby Kennedy, the assassination, and, you know, and even big events, too, like, you know, things that were kind of good, but were maybe, what is the meaning of this, right, you know, like, very positive things, like, you know, I think there was, I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right, but I think he did, When one, one of the, like the challenger, the spaceship exploded, I think he did something on that because a lot of school kids were actually watching that alive. Yeah, they had, they had, they, they showed like the rocket and stuff and like puppet rockets and stuff. And so he explained, I think he explained what happened. So that, yeah, cause I remember I was in, I think I was in sixth grade when it happened and we all were watching, I think I was in science class and. Not even knowing what was happening because you know and you're even younger is like even it's very difficult to understand What's happening? And why are all the teachers crying all of a sudden? It's yeah, it's hard to really hard to understand And yeah, so so he knew okay. Well gosh, we need to get to action And this needs to be our show tomorrow, or whatever he did. Yeah, and he, like you said, he, even after he stopped the show, they brought, they asked him to come out and speak about when 9 11 happened, um, which was, of course, huge and very confusing for everyone, but especially, you know, kids and things like that, and he came and spoke on, was it a commercial or like a broadcast? Yeah, he came in, um, they had him, he was like in a, Suit, you know, so he wasn't in his usual cardigan and he just a PSA type of thing and he just explained about you know bad things happening and how scary it can be and just in his calm voice and just I think just probably seeing him on the television again probably because the the children that had seen him the year before when he retired Would have still been probably the age to still watch him. Yeah. Probably was very comforting seeing him. For sure. Yeah. It's, I mean, you know, that definitely is, you know, so, so huge to know that like this, you know, national world event that happened and affected so many people and was just kind of the first of its kind, you know, to that scale that they brought, you know, they were thinking, well, Mr. Rogers is someone that can be, yeah. The therapist, you know, he can come in and he can comfort and he can guide them. Yeah, he's the nation's therapist. Yeah, he was. For kids, and I think it was comforting for adults, probably, to see who had watched him, you know, they probably felt something. I think I told you. My dad! Was such a big Mr. Rogers fan. And I don't know, like, even like when we got to the age where we started, you know, like middle school or high school, you know, whatever age you stop watching, um, probably middle school. And, um, but I remember my dad would still have it on. Like he would watch it even when. We got to an age where we're like, ah, come on dad. It's not, you know, but he'd be like, he would just watch and he just loved it. He, you know, by choice. So then we would sit and watch it. And I don't know if it was just for him because he had kids probably all of Mr. Roger's career, you know, like, so, and he might've been like comfortable to him and it might've calmed, maybe quieted my dad's mind. Cause my dad is like, You know, engineer and just probably very go, you know, just so maybe watching someone who's so methodical was probably very nice and just like a, like an old friend even. Yeah, I think that definitely, yeah, he, because he became, I mean, he was spanned across, you know, four decades, right, you know, so, that's a lot, and then he still endured in like the, just the cultural, you know, kind of conversation, he was still, he was always kind of that reference of, you know, for a while, I think some people kind of mocked it as like, oh, it's too emotional, it's too calm, but, I think for people like us, and many other people, He was calm and he was wonderful and he was compassionate. It wasn't it. It was, it's a good thing. It's very validating even to, not only just to us personally, but in our professions and how people live their lives, how people choose to live their lives. And that's the thing I take away the most, that he validated and made it feel okay to be someone who has emotions and who you know. You don't have to hide those away. You don't have to not talk about it. You can. Yeah, and even in his like his make believe land or what I always forget what it was called like land of make believe or but I think it was land of make believe I get it mixed up too, but everybody was so different like not everybody agreed with the king or Not everybody, you know, like Listen, like Lady Elaine's crazy craziness, but they still liked her and you know, they little kitty, you know, you know, whatever they're like, what, you know, let's talk to her and then the wise owl and just like everybody. Had a voice and even though it might have been completely opposite and didn't even make sense. They all listened to each other. That's interesting. Yeah, it was they were very different, but they did they they all got along and they were all able to Be kind to each other in the end, you know, even though there may have been disagreements And I think that was, it's almost like conflict resolution shown with Puppets, you know, and wow, he really did for a lot of like play therapy and just child psychology, and even in therapy for adults, you know, a lot of the, you know, acceptance therapy and being able to, Validate others and their feelings, express their feelings, role play, work things out. I mean, like the list goes on and on how you could have, and I'm sure other people can say this about their professions as well. This is just what the angle we're looking at. That's pretty amazing. And how many different fields probably use puppets. Or use some sort of thing to help children talk, or help even, what did you mean by that, or, why don't you use it? I used to use puppets in play therapy. I had finger puppets and I had a little, what do you call it, like a little kind of house where they could kind of go behind. And I would kind of do it at first to kind of show like, oh, I'm talking about this. And it wouldn't be anything about them at first. It would just kind of be like, I'm just telling you about myself until they got familiar with it. And a lot of kids were for it. There were definitely a few that were like, I'm not for this. So we try something else, but they're in video games and stuff. You know, this is, I'm talking like, you know, 2013, you know, kind of thing and on, but yeah, they were not, yeah, either they knew it was me and they weren't buying it or they just weren't into puppets. They were into video games and they were like, puppets, that's nothing compared to the entertainment I can get from video games, but a lot of them did hook into it, especially the younger ones, like around four or five, it was, you know. Yeah, that was also. We'll get into that. A sweetness too. I saw like on the documentary, Mr. Rogers went somewhere to talk to a bunch of children and he brought Daniel Tiger and you know, you see Mr. Rogers talking, but you know, they're just staring at Daniel Tiger, like, and then everybody gets a comes in like, you know, Daniel Tiger's like, you know, talking with whatever he's saying. And then they just all stand in line to give Daniel Tiger a hug. They're all like, they all take turns, like, to give Mr. Rogers hand, a hug, but I mean, it's just so, it's so sweet. It's like, oh my god. It's just such sweetness. Yeah, he really was just a very compassionate kind. I mean, you know, revolutionary. He was just so many things wrapped in one. And the thing is, he was not, he just wanted those things to be for the betterment of the world, for kids, for people. And that's who he was, and that's the mark he left. And I am Thankful and grateful. Yeah, me too. I was gonna, I was gonna say grateful as well. It's pretty. Yeah. I'm pretty, pretty happy to have had, yeah, I was gonna say to have my childhood, but I'm very grateful to have, I'm very grateful to have that experience. Sorry, this is, now we're just gonna have a laughing fit. Well, I'm grateful to have had the experience to have watched Mr. Rogers in my childhood. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think. It definitely expanded my childhood. Yeah, I, the same, yeah, same for me. I really honestly think. He set me on a path of not ignoring and shutting off these emotions that I think it was very necessary in the environment I grew up in and he gave me a little ray of hope to say, keep those, that's a part of you, like you, you strongly, there's something that you have in there that you can connect with. I'm so thankful for that because that really got me through so, so much and it even guided me in my career. So, yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. And I really think he, he really was a huge influence when I really look back on it. I don't think I realized how much of an influence he was until I was watching, I had to watch the Tom Hanks movie too. I haven't seen that one yet, but I just, when I was watching the documentary, it just made me really realize just how much he affected me, um, as far like in a positive manner. And I don't know if I became a therapist because of him, but I think I, Became more empathetic. I had more empathy. I think I learned to look at things differently and embrace my imagination. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He, I mean, he really encouraged so much. It really is. You can, even if you take one of those Aztecs with you, he made a huge difference. He really did. But yeah, so we are, you know, I know we're kind of, we're kind of hitting up on our time here. I know we could go on for a while, but we really want to hear what you think about Mr. Rogers. If, you know, he had that impact for you or if you have other feelings about it, whatever it is, we would love to hear about it. Yeah. If you have any stories, if there's anything we missed, if you have a favorite cardigan that you wear, yes, please send pictures, description, whatever it is, if you're, whatever you're comfortable with, if you, or suggestions, if it's worth the blue kids and a cardigan, like, let us know. Yes, that would be amazing. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. We'd probably have to show that if the person was okay with that on our next episode, but no, I'm just kidding. Whatever it is that, that you. Want to add, you know, a few comments and also just, you know, apart from that suggestions for future Episodes, we always want to hear that. We love those ideas. Any comments from this episode or others are always welcome and Don't forget to follow us on instagram at wicked psychotherapist And on Facebook, we are The Wicked Psycho Therapist, subscribe, follow wherever you go. We're on all platforms. And write us a review if you can, that really helps. We'd really appreciate it. Hopefully it is good. We would love that. If it's not, then maybe not. Maybe we can just, you know, know that from afar. Yeah, just, yeah. Yeah, or if you have, if there's some constructiveness to it, you know, maybe send us a message and we'll, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like Aaron, stop talking about your dog so much. No, I don't think anybody would have an issue with that. I really don't. People love dogs and Paige is adorable. So no, but yeah, so this is, uh, Mr. Rogers and we will continue follow up next week, but don't forget, stay wicked and keep your mind well. Yes. Do that and watch some Mr. Rogers. Yeah, definitely. There's a, the movie, the documentary, both are great. And they have the shows, like if you have the PBS Kids app and you have kids and you want to introduce them to Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. And they have that Daniel Tiger cartoon show, which is. I guess based on it, there's a lot of ways to have Mr. Rogers in your life. For sure. Well, yeah, but we love Mr. Rogers, but please, you know, we are always for any opinions, anything, or just anything you want to add, or something that you think maybe we can talk about more in the future. We'd love to hear from you. That'd be awesome. You all take care and we will see you next week. All right. All right. Bye bye. Bye bye. We Wish You a Merry Christmas