Wicked Psychotherapists

Practical Magic: Witchy Themes and Mental Health Insights

• Erin Gray and Tanya Dos Santos • Season 2 • Episode 33

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In this episode of 'Wicked Psychotherapists,' Tanya and Erin dive into the 1998 film 'Practical Magic.' 

They explore its witchy themes and the mental health insights it provides, linking the magical elements of the movie to real-life issues such as family dynamics, trauma, and recovery. 

They discuss the contrasting personalities of the sisters, Sally and Jillian, and how the movie portrays the intersection of magic, intuition, and mental health. 

The hosts also draw parallels between the movie's events and common therapy themes like grief, self-preservation, and the importance of community support.

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You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

Erin:

Hi everyone this is Tanya. Hi this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

Tanya:

Yeah so we are in a spooky month and we are just going wild with all the movies that are, traditionally watched during this season. So we've been talking for a while doing practical magic. A movie and we thought this would be a good launch. I like how you paused, the movie. The movie, yeah, like not just Practical Magic, but also just the movie. So, yeah, we thought, you know, there's some good themes to explore in there. It's a fun movie, it's, you know, if you are at all seeing us on video, we've got our little mugs on here. Erin's got her cute little witch and witch mug with the eek, eek bag, it's you know, her treat bag, it's so cute. Yeah,

Erin:

cute.

Tanya:

And your little, and your pumpkin shirt. Oh yeah. Has Halloween themes. So we're getting into, I did some red and black nails and I've got some constellation mug. Because to me that's so cute. Witchy, wintery, fallish. Yeah, that's just my thing. And I got my fall background. I still, I'm gonna add to again but yeah, so we are in the fall spirit. We hope you are too, if you are joining us. But we wanted to talk about some things that we feel are standout. in mental health that can also be applied to the movie or just kind of overall mental wellness. So this movie was made in 1998. And I'm only pointing that out because it is a 26, 26 years later. And by now I think most people have seen it. So again, there's going to be spoilers in here. Yeah. That's something I just often want. I know it's probably assumed, but I'm just going to say that. And also just that this was based off of a book. I actually forgot about this. Oh. Practical Magic by, is it Alice Hoffman? Is she the writer? I think it's Alice Hoffman. And she just has some really fabulous books. I think that kind of. Talk about subjects of like magic, but also they're very symbolic of real life, and I just family

Erin:

relationships

Tanya:

Yeah, I really love how she leaves those themes together So I just I think that this is really cool if they made a movie off of this But yeah, so I mean it's really fun cast right? It's a Nicole Kidman Sandra Diane Wiest West? East? I don't

Erin:

know. They all look so, They're all very

Tanya:

famous. Yes, cuz,

Erin:

I was gonna say the ants looked very, they looked very familiar. I just couldn't figure out who they were.

Tanya:

Yeah, they've been a lot of stuff. Stalker Channing, I think is, or yeah, Channing Stalker. Stalker Channing. I may be mixing up a few names with Tatum and stuff. I don't know what I'm doing. But there, you all know what I mean. There's a little magic mic stuff going on. Yeah, there's some, yeah, which is, yeah, a different form of magic. But yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, there's some really classic actors in here. So, you know, you're getting good stuff. And yeah, Starker Channing is her name and she's, you know, been in a lot of different things. There's also the other aunt, Diane, I want to say, is it Weister? I don't think I ever knew how to say her last name.

Erin:

Diane Weistwest?

Tanya:

Weist, yeah, Weist. I, sorry, I'm totally mispronouncing that, but you all know who I mean. She's been in a lot of stuff, and obviously Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock, they're, you know, they're all very famous, so. Yeah, so this is kind of, it's an interesting movie because it involves, like, magical elements, like spells, witches you know, maybe being kind of shunned by the town you know, the two main characters, the sisters, Sally and Jillian, that are played by Sondra Bullock and Nicole Kidman they end up living with their aunts because their you know, their dad died. It was supposed to be from this, like, they're cursed in love. The females are cursed in love in the family. And then the mom dies of a broken heart, so then they go to their aunts you know, to live with them. And within this town, it's very much known that they're like witches, and they're not quote unquote normal, and so they're kinda not really accepted too much for their powers. There's even a scene when they're little, the two girls, the two sisters that, Somebody says something about them being witches and they get into like a physical fight with this kid I think Jillian like doesn't Jillian like kind of knock him out. Well,

Erin:

and then she curses Chicken pox on him.

Tanya:

Oh, right, right. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah They kind of use them the magic the chicken pox or measles or

Erin:

something and then he comes back Later on with chicken pox on him.

Tanya:

Yeah, and then the mom's mad and is like or like kind of scared, too Yeah So there's a lot of, like, right off the bat, we see kind of these, like, fantastical, like, magical elements, but it weaves into a lot of other I think symbolically related, like, you know, mental health themes, family relationships, connection self care relation, like, abusive relationships. There's a lot of different themes in

Erin:

this.

Tanya (2):

Yeah.

Erin:

yeah and we'll talk about it too, like, yeah, the sis, sister relationships, the aunt relationships, the, how they can almost be like a mother to them too. Yeah.

Tanya:

For sure. Yeah. And we see a really big dichotomy between the two sisters at a young age, right? Like there's, they're very different. Jillian is very kind of like free spirited and wants to experience love, very much a romantic and is like, I want to, You know, have somebody just, you know, I want to, can't wait to fall in love, and Sally's like, I'll never fall in love, you know, kind of thing. Likely because she knows of the, you know, with her parents, kind of what had happened, yeah. So, right off the bat, you see that there's a strong bond between them, but they are very different in how they are. Even their, like, physical characteristics are very different, like, Sally's very kind of dark haired, dark eyed, and, Jillian is very, like, light haired, blue eyed, and kind of, like, you know, curly hair. Yeah.

Erin:

Wild red hair. And

Tanya:

Yeah. It's really, like, just kind of a contrast there, so. But they very much, you know, care for each other. You can see that there's, like, a, you know, big connection there. You can see that the aunts look over them and, you know, watch out for them. And kind of are protecting them in this magic. But, then as the sisters get older What ends up happening is you know, we see that Jillian Nicole Kidman's character. Sorry, I keep saying that, but I'm just trying to keep it straight myself that she, she's like running off to meet boy. She's boy crazy. And, you know, Sally is kind of more like, you know, reading a book at night kind of type or like going to bed early, sort of.

Erin:

Yeah, don't leave me.

Tanya:

Yeah, and like, like kind of wants, you know, to just have her sister around, but at one point Jillian does run off with a boy and, you know, Sally's really upset, but then Sally finds her own person that she falls in love with very unexpectedly. And is just like, oh, things are great, has kids, has a family, is very happy. But then the curse hits and unfortunately her husband dies.

Erin:

Yeah. Then there seems to be a lot of sadness and anger from Sally when she realizes that her aunts kind of created, well, they didn't create him, but they put a spell so that they would, meet or connect. But they, It said they never really believed that Sally would fall in love with him. So they thought that she'd be safe from the curse. They just didn't want her to be alone, which there was a lot of anger from Sally, but you could see because they took the, this parental role in the, in their nieces and they just wanted, they were thinking, okay, well, how can we get her out of the house and how can we let her have a life and be happy? so then it's like almost full circle. Then she had to come back and move back with her aunts.

Tanya:

Yeah, that's true. I did I, that's a big part of it is that, yeah the aunts had kind of cast a spell, but thinking like, oh, this won't affect her in this way. And it, it kind of reminds me of like a family dynamic of somebody trying to help someone out well meaning, but maybe it turns out to be not the best in the end kind of thing. You know, and kind of encouraging them to go in one direction knowing there's a possibility you can get hurt. But. Yeah. I think what the aunts realized is that no matter what you do in life, you can get hurt. And that's kind of like a big theme. Is that there. Yeah. There are themes where there's going to be loss and grief. In every relationship.

Erin:

You're not

Tanya:

going to be able to be with the same person.

Erin:

And especially if you're helping somebody and they don't know it. So if you're helping someone in the background. And you think you're solving your family member's issue or you're preventing them from having heartache. By doing this, you're not really doing a huge service for them. Which, I think the aunts realized with when Sally's husband died.

Tanya:

Yeah, kind of like a little bit of enabling maybe or like caretaking and kind of saying like, okay, we don't want her to hurt, but maybe they went too far and kind of deciding some of those elements and not consulting her on that and not, you know, kind of realizing she might have not wanted a different direction for herself. But then there's also for Sally, it's also realizing that, you know, and I think they, that the aunts talked to her about this, like life is about. You know, unfortunately, it's about loss and grief, like we're all gonna lose people, we're all going to, you know, you can't kind of hide away from that, you know, and you have that love, and unfortunately it's not. here right now. Yeah. You know, she still has her two children who are kind of mini, like miniatures of them, of the sisters. You know, they're kind of, they kind of have the same contrasting elements and contrasting. Yeah. Yeah, the hair color. Characteristics too. Yeah.

Erin:

Yeah the dark hair and the red hair. Yeah. Yeah. And one's more serious and one's more adventurous. Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah. One has like kind of more of a talent for spells and the other one doesn't, which was. Kind of the way it was, like, Sally, I think, was more talented with spells, but didn't really want to use it.

Erin:

Right.

Tanya:

Yeah, and that's a whole, that's another thing is that element of, like, Sally kind of turned away from, she didn't want that kind of, I think, intuitive sense, or kind of that, whatever that magical you know, kind of familial characteristic that's in their family, like, you know, that thing that they call spells, and they do this, It's very much kind of saying, like, this is a part of your you know, your family, like, your family history. And she didn't really want that. She kind of wanted to be quote unquote normal, like, she didn't, she just kind of wanted to live like a normal, you know, have a husband and kids and that's it. And she was very angry that I think that she had that, she knew she had that talent and she had to kind of suppress it a little bit. Yeah.

Erin:

Yeah, it's almost like cultural. So she didn't want to, you know, like if we're thinking like, not in the movie too, like a lot of times people culturally, they don't, or they don't want to always follow what the past generation has done. Just because the past generation has done it, it's like, I want to create my own route. I want to be able to figure out my own path. But sometimes we do have to weave back to some of our cultures and some of our family's beliefs because sometimes that's, you know, I don't want to say it's the best, but sometimes that's just what we know as a family unit too. Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah. I think that's a good point. Like with, it's kind of like generational trauma, like saying, I don't want this, but there's still elements that I do want to pass on that maybe I. think are important to, you know, keep within myself and keep with my family. And saying like, you know, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. Like, I think Sally was trying to bury it and instead it's kind of like accepting it.

Tanya (2):

And

Tanya:

knowing that you can use it, but you don't have to do this in the same way. It doesn't have to turn out the same way. And you can kind of make your own kind of traditions and your own cultures, but like still incorporate some of those other things. It doesn't have to be something to run from.

Erin:

Yeah. And just even too, how Sally, when she was walking, I was just thinking about how when she was walking under the path to let, to move back into with her aunts. Because like it was so different than when her and Jillian first went because they were very much like the aunts are like Okay, we're gonna have cake and we're gonna do this and you don't have to do homework You know just it's gonna be fun And then we're gonna do spells and she's gonna be really fun And then Sally's like you will do homework. There will not be cake You will just you know, like she's so she's telling them and there will be no spells

Tanya:

She's more like the traditional kind of like mom parent, like kind of, whereas like her aunts are very much like, ah, let's like flouting the rules, you know, just like, it doesn't really matter. You can learn stuff in different ways. Yeah, and so I think maybe finding a happy medium between that, you know, is something probably helpful that I think they, they probably learn about. Definitely Sally maybe Jillian too, to an extent. She's a little bit of a different story, but yeah, and there's, I think there's, you know, there's a lot of grief that Sally's expressing. She's angry. But then there's also like a reconnection with her sister when her sister Jillian comes back and she, like, they go under the blanket and she's just like, I was so happy. You know, they kind of like bond. They talk for hours and there's like,

Erin:

yeah, hugging some of the

Tanya:

healing in that.

Erin:

Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, it is like they, they had this huge separation cause Jillian, it sounds like she never met her nieces until this moment.

Tanya (2):

Yeah,

Erin:

you know, both Jillian and Sally were so psychically connected, you know, because they had like that blood bond Which they already had a blood bond because they're sisters but when they cut their hands and then they like, you know class over and then they're just So then they can almost like sense each other But so they knew when each other was needing each other. Hey, there was an emergency

Tanya:

Yeah like there was that when Jillian was about to be really possibly, like, killed or harmed by that abusive boyfriend, like, Sally is like, oh my god, like, she knew she was in trouble, and she felt it. that like intuitive connection, which I think all these elements point to some of the magical quote unquote, magical elements that I think people have that like intuition and connection is kind of magical. If you think about it it's kind of not really like something you can explain, but it's there. And it is, you know, some people say it's a, like we don't have five senses that like intuition and Dreams and, you know, memories of particular you know, events are also senses for people. Who are like kind of intuitive or in tune with that. And I think that's part of the practical magic, you know, that this is titled after is in seeing that.

Erin:

Yeah. And I wonder if the title, I wonder if it was a play on, you know, practical magic.'cause you could, it's like. You know, it's very, it's everywhere. It's not just, you know, we're not just doing the cauldron and doing all this. It's, you know, it's like every day. It's very practical.

Tanya:

Yeah. Like there's things like in the connections with your family, the intuition, like growing, like they, they have like all these herbs and they're like, you know, make sure you have, you know, that there's that famous ending quote that I'm going to butcher that's like, you know, make sure you plant rosemary by your garden, you know, for, I don't I'm sorry, I can't remember what, yeah, no I remember what you said

Erin:

yeah, it's like rosemary and lavender something, basil, it was some, it was a few other things, I was like, huh, that makes sense.

Tanya:

yeah, it's really good advice. I mean, it's like, that's something you could do in your garden to be like, okay, you know, and these are things that like, I think. our ancestors have been doing for a long time, you know, before we kind of knew about modern medicine and things like that, you know, there was herbs and there was like an understanding of like, Oh, this brings luck because, you know, there's some practical form of it, but maybe we didn't know. And to keep that in your life, you know, to keep that, like to treasure it, I think, you know? So I think there's, yeah, absolutely. It is like an everyday magic. It's not just like, you know, the magic, like, boiling bones or whatever, you know, and kind of coming up with spells. But although there is like some of that in there, just for

Erin:

it is also the magic of it's interesting too, that it's like, you know, three generations of sisters. Yeah, that the movie is basically based on and how they're able to be so different and be so like, and Just learn from each other and there, you know, there comes a point like when everything's going bad and they, the aunts are like, okay, we're leaving, we're out of here, you know, you need to, you now need to figure this out and you did this, you know, this crazy stuff, but they knew that, you know, the young girls are going to be safe, like the young, like their young nieces, but they knew they couldn't, you know, Help sally and jillian by staying there. So I thought that was actually like they needed to let them Grow up and figure this out Themselves, even though they probably knew had the tools because they're older witches and they've known what to do, you know they probably knew how to help whatever is happening with the You know, like the boyfriend that his spirit was coming back, you know trying to haunt them or whatever You

Tanya:

Yeah. I think that was kind of like a letting go, right? Of like saying like, sometimes there's things you have to figure out on your own. We know that you're capable of it, but we can't caretake and enable that sort of thing. Right. I know I'm using very therapy terms, but you know, yeah, for sure. I think that, that's a good point, you know, to kind of look at that to say like, sometimes you can't, you have to kind of step out of people's lives and they have to figure it out. But, you know, you're not doing that as a form any type of, like, hatred or maliciousness, but as a form of love, and that, that can be really powerful, because they end up getting help from the phone tree system. Yeah, like from the, like, yeah, the

Erin:

PTA, with all these women who are so, so judgmental and mean to Sally for her whole life, because these are all the young girls that she grew up with, now are moms, in the town who were still very judgmental of like here they

Tanya:

are, they're Oh, yeah,

Tanya (2):

they're

Tanya:

like, Yeah, very excited. Like, Oh, kind of like it's like something different for them. They're Oh, this is like magic. But then they kind of see That like, you know, the, you know, Sally's not that much different and needs some help and is vulnerable and they're there for her.

Erin:

Yeah, she's just, and then they see too, because one is like, like, Sally's like, oh, I'm shocked you're here. She's like, well, you know, I always wanted to see the inside of your house. Yeah, like

Tanya:

everyone's always been curious.

Erin:

but then you could tell like they, at first like, this is really scary. Are we supposed to do this? What are we doing? Then they're getting really into it. And then you could see, like, all of a sudden, something changes in all the women's, way they're reacting when you can see how upset Sally is, that Jillian's dying, or whatever is happening with, you know, what's, you know, whatever is happening to her. It's just really scary for her. You can see the compassion with them all while they're doing this.

Tanya:

Yeah, and I think that's you know, that's a good connection point that people can have and like have that kind of I guess like, you know, connect, like, like friendships, like sisterhood friendships, you know, and kind of seeing that and seeing them as people as opposed to just like, you know, you're a witch, you're a witch or whatever kind of thing they kind of saying at the beginning. You know, and so they were able to see that humanity and also catch a glimpse into them to say like, They're not that different. I mean, they may do things a little bit differently, but they still have a lot of the same things that, we understand, right? Yeah. You know, because then there's also the element of Jillian, you know, with this. I don't know, demon guy or whatever that he's obviously he's abusive, but she, you know, puts a spell on him to, you know, kind of say like, okay, you're, I, you're going to be obsessed with me. You don't want anyone else. And then he kind of is just like crazy and comes after her, attacks her. So she has to kill him. And her sister comes and helps That's the time when she realizes she's in trouble.

Erin:

Yeah.

Tanya:

And then, you know, he comes back and. It's just like trying to attack and take over her psychically basically, which is so symbolic of like, you know, that abuse, like how it just kind of keeps, you know, kind of, even after they're gone, like there's still so much psychically that, that you'd have to deal with, or if they just keep coming back, like, you know, and breaking

Erin:

the cycle, you know, it's, you know, cause it's like a push pull too, like trying, you know, being able to leave and then feeling You know, like how is your family gonna react, you know? And just, you know, like do you have the support? Because a lot of times people feel like they don't have any support when they're in an abusive relationship, too. So that's also very symbolic of the phone tree and everybody around her gathering around her to protect her and help her and save her from this man who is still abusing her even after he's dead.

Tanya:

Right. and her sister like rushed to help her with a dead body, you know, like, and didn't say like, oh, you shouldn't have been doing this, or like, you know, you know, kind of judged her in that way, instead she just helped her, you know, and said like, okay, this is what we need to do, and I mean, obviously, like, realistically there's a lot of things about that, we're not saying like, that's the best way to, to handle things, you know, but. Yes, yeah we're not

Erin:

condoning this. No this made this made up movie that we're talking about.

Tanya:

Yeah, no, like, yeah it's, I mean, I think, you know, it's just to say that she, you know, Sally was supportive of her, like she, she had that love for her.

Erin:

Yeah, she, she realized, yeah, she realized that her sister needed her. And it's also very, a different role too, because Jillian seems like she probably was the one that would be like, oh yeah, let's do this, I'm out for anything. fun sister that would probably always try to protect Sally growing up. And so now Sally had the chance to do that for her.

Tanya:

Yeah. And kind of, you know, make sure that she was okay. And yeah, I think that's like, shows That sisterly bond, you know, and like you said, the generations of it, and also but also, I think the connections between each one, and then, wondering what Sally's daughters, what, they're going to end up with, you know what I mean? Like, what, who are they going to be? And knowing that it doesn't have to be something that's forced upon them. They don't have to be, you know, mixing up margaritas at night, you know, or whatever, and or tequila, yeah, margaritas. And, you know, which is like, cool, probably, you know, if they do, but you know, they don't have to be doing that every night. And they don't, but they also don't have to be, like, rejecting all of these magical things that you can find. With people and connections around yeah, you know, yeah, so they could still have they could still

Erin:

have their witchiness and they could be open to their intuition and you know and be Open to love, you know because now that's also was revealed in the movie That is very old, so don't get mad at us about all these these spoilers, but, the spell is broken. And then Sally's able to have love. And now everybody's able to have love and not fear that beetle is gonna come chirping and then whoever you love is gonna die.

Tanya:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, it's really kind of, maybe kind of like freeing you from a mental block or a generational trauma or a trauma that's been passed down to kind of say, okay, I can move forward in this grief. I can know that grief happens, that this is not something that's going to you know, follow me for the rest of my life. And Sally does end up finding another good dude at the end, right? You know, she's you know, and it feels kind of like safe because she knows that. It's no longer a threat, you know, and so she can move on and you know, there's kind of that element where I think I had a hard time understanding when I watched this, when I was, you know, when it first came out, I think it was like a teenager. Yeah, it was a teenager. And I think just kind of recognizing that, like, I couldn't like, I guess, mix together the literal elements and the symbolic elements. And it just kind of bothered me because I was like, well, how come the Beatles not going to come out? Like, For this, that's not like, I just didn't really get you kind of have to understand that, like I, I was just very literal about it, I think, and I was like, well, that's weird. Like, are they witches? Or is this just, like, I didn't realize that, like, that was the whole point of it. You know? So, yeah, that took me a while, but I really did enjoy it, like, when I watched it as, like, you know, probably in, like, my twenties or something, I was like, oh, okay, I get this. I see this in a whole different light, you know, and.

Erin:

Yeah, it is, it's interesting how you watch it differently, because I know when I first watched, I've seen it not a thousand times, but I've probably seen it like four or five times. And, I know the first couple times I saw it, I was like, oh, this is really weird and spooky and creepy with the frogs and the guy and, you know, just, but then, and then I used to always think Jillian was like, really cool and, you know, cause she's so pretty and just seems like free and everything. And, re watching it, like I watched it last night before our show today. That Jillian just kind of annoyed me. I felt like she's very selfish and self absorbed and I didn't really listen to Sally's needs, or anyone else's, and I was very I know when I've watched it before, I was like, ugh, Sally is such a dick. Dud, it's so boring. Just so, so like just milquetoast type of stuff. But now when I re watched it, I was like, wow, I really understand Sally. Maybe I'm dull and boring now. But I really, but I really thought that I was like she makes sense. You know, like this, she just wants to fit in and she just wants to be happy and Yeah, she could light the candles with her finger and she could do the different things, but she sees, you know, she's still mourning her mom and dad like as a little kid and as a teen and everything and she's just seeing that magic is What caused her dad to die and then because of magic her mom died of a broken heart and if she doesn't do magic Then maybe that wouldn't happen to her or something, you know, so so she just kind of she's

Tanya:

living in response to that trauma Yeah to the opposite end.

Erin:

Yeah, so which is so

Tanya:

relatable like yeah, I can relate more because you see that she's very scared She's very traumatized by that and she's like trying and I actually really relate to Sally. I was very much like, you know, a person who, if I saw family members when I was younger doing stuff, I was like, I'm going to stay so far away from that. It will not even be a part of my life.

Tanya (2):

Yeah. And

Tanya:

I would reject a lot of things. Like I did react that way because I was like, I can't do that. I can't do that because I know that this causes pain. Like I could, you know, Yeah, and

Erin:

that's very smart. That's very smart of you because a lot of people don't do that. A lot of people who see family members or other people doing dangerous things or stupid things. They just were like, okay, that's bad, but it won't be bad for me. But for you to say, you know what? I'm just gonna stay far away from it. That's probably difficult, but it's also very brave and very smart.

Tanya:

I think it was very self preserving. It also comes with its own issues because then you don't explore a lot of these things near that, right? You know, and I think that's kind of what Sally experiences. She was like, well, you know, now that I, she decided to, to, you know, with the spell, the help of her aunt's spell, like, you know, Get married and have kids and, I think she felt like, oh, this was a bad idea after and like, why did I do this? Like, why was this here just for it to be taken away? But, you know, realizing that this, those elements in life are going to happen. You know, it is a tragedy. It is something that is awful, but that is, Something that we all face a risk of happening on a daily basis, you know,

Erin:

Yeah, we all can't lock ourselves in our room or in a house on an island with just you know with our aunts who? You know or just even be like, alright, I'm gonna die alone with my sister and that's my plan So I can't really make any other plans in between.

Tanya:

Right. Yeah. Like I can't keep myself safe by locking myself in a cage. And

Tanya (2):

I

Tanya:

think that's kind of what she was, you know, feeling like would be safe for her. She was so scared of that, that she just kind of went the opposite spectrum. But yeah, like we were talking about, she comes to center and she kind of realizes like, wait, maybe this is a lot of my own mental blocks. I can take some of this in. I can rework this and I can, you know, I can have some of these traditions with my family and it doesn't mean that it's all bad, but I can also keep some of these things that I feel like keep me safe too. Like maybe some, you know, routines for homework for my kids, you know, kind of thing. And maybe they don't have chocolate breakfast. Like, yeah, like, but maybe sometimes, right. You know? Yeah. So I think it's kind of really like, you know, looking at. When kids are traumatized and then Jillian on the other hand was kind of just like, I'm just gonna like have no boundaries and just go all out and just see what happens and Sally kind of rescues her, you know.

Erin:

Yeah. And I think Jillian was doing the opposite. So where Sally was trying to protect and preserve herself by not experiencing, Jillian thought, well, I will not have any deep connection with anybody. If I'm just partying and being free and being just moving around all the time because Then I won't hurt or I won't lose

Tanya:

Yeah, it's really interesting because that does apply in family dynamics how like siblings and just how different family members will respond differently to trauma, to hurt, to taking in, you know, understanding your family, to figuring out who you are. And I think there's so many elements in that demonstrated in Sally and Jillian and of course in the aunts and then, you know, for the future Sally's kids too. But yeah some. You know, I think it very much says you can have reactions to trauma, but you always have to come to a head with it. You have to go through it. You can't go around it with these other ways, you know?

Erin:

Yeah. It's going to find its way back if you don't, if you just kind of avoid it instead of. figuring that path to it or just having that uncomfortable feeling for a little bit.

Tanya:

Yeah, maybe that was demonstrated, I don't know, maybe I'm just imagining this, or maybe this is obvious, that maybe that was demonstrated with the beetle, the, like, that killed, that, like, it wasn't dealt with, like, the mother Jillian and Sally's mother didn't, like, just died of a broken heart. And then Sally really took it in and like was like I'm not going to do this or if I do this like no it just can't happen like it kind of wasn't really processed all that so maybe that's like the beetle coming back like it's still there that element is still there.

Tanya (2):

Yeah.

Tanya:

Like that fear of like. You know, can I love, can I put myself out there, vulnerability kind of thing. And Jillian was like, I'm going to, I'm going to appear to be vulnerable, but I'm really just kind of putting myself out there in a way that's not really putting myself out there. Like I'm, you know, just being

Erin:

out there. Yeah. She's putting herself out there. Yeah. She's putting herself out there, but she knows that she's never putting herself out there for love. So she's never really going to lose. It's going to be on her terms.

Tanya:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so that kind of, the beetle is maybe that kind of reminder. Maybe that's why there was like no fear of the beetle coming back at the end, because maybe Sally had processed that.

Erin:

Well, yeah. Well, and they also said in the movie they believe that the spell was broken because of all the women coming together at the very end. And there's like that big spark of light or whatever happened that it's almost like they all felt happiness. Yeah. So all these. Cranky women and you know everyone else and like, you know, this fella's broken and he was gone and they dusted him off they brushed him up brushed him away and Then it's like Sally was free to love and I guess that future generations are now so now that generational curse it's gone.

Tanya:

Yeah, I think that's like she, she found the connection and other people and was able to say I can't be open, I can't ask for help.

Erin:

Yeah. And

Tanya:

it's okay. And how vulnerable

Erin:

asking for help from a bunch of women who bullied you your whole life.

Tanya:

Yeah. And in, in the, like a PTA phone tree, that's gotta be the most intimidating thing in the world. Yeah. Like, I don't know, to me that sounds intimidating. Yeah, that sounds awful. That sounds

Erin:

like I, I don't think I'd want to do that.

Tanya:

Yeah, it's, ugh. Yeah. But yeah, so there, and there's just so many great scenes in this, right? There's like the cool, like the house, it's like the new Englandy vibes, the witches, the the garden, you know, the herbs that they have the spells they cook up. Of course that the classic like tequila scene, the margarita. Yeah. The, you know, lime in the coconut kind of dancing. I'm the coconut.

Tanya (2):

Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah. Like they kind of, you know, have fun and, you know, and just, you know, a lot of, it's, it is like a fun movie, it's a very like Halloween ish movie, kind of spooky vibes, witchy vibes, and yeah, so it's just it's, but it's also got these very I think, intertwined family dynamics mental health themes in there that are really important too. Yeah, a

Erin:

lot too, What's interesting about this movie, too, because it's not just about, like, one family member dynamic. It's, you know, it goes back multiple generations. So they're still, like, because you hear Jillian and Sally talk, like, how they still are angry with their mother who's passed. And then they have these two aunts who seem nothing but love. And so they're, you know, they've really probably shown them both what love is and what family relationship. And these two sisters are so connected, but they're also so different. And they've worked through their, they seem like they've had to work through their stuff throughout their life and it's just interesting how everyone processes grief and everything differently together.

Tanya:

Yeah. But the support, I think the support and the connection is really key there. You know, it's which is such a theme that we always deal with a lot with mental health, you know, feeling safe and connected. Those are big kind of foundational. Yeah. Tenets that. Yeah, definitely. Clients need that. A lot that everyone needs, you know? Yeah. People need for mental health. Yeah. Just for being human. Right. But yeah, and I did, I found the quote. Okay, so it is that quote that you all will recognize this. I just had to, it was just kind of, it know, driving me bad or batty. But so it says, there are some things I know for certain always throw, spilled salt over your left shoulder. Keep rosemary by your garden gate. Plant lavender for luck and fall in love wherever you can, or whenever you can. So it's kind of just like that's the practical magic of like, you know, of life is like working through some of those things. It kind of sums it up. So yeah, I just thought that was a good way to kind of So you have some good luck, some health,

Erin:

you know, there's different things in that. Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah, and you know kind of like that hope. And, you know, keeping yourself open for love in many different forms, not just romantic love, but friendship, family, things like that.

Tanya (2):

Animals.

Tanya:

Yeah. Animals. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, definitely. But yeah. So, anything else that you wanted to add? No, I think we,

Erin:

no, I think we covered most of the, I feel like we covered most of the themes. yeah, it's a good movie. It's, it definitely was. Different re watching. you know, We say this all the time, Tanya and I like new stuff, but we also really like old stuff. So we're gonna be a little yin yang, whatever it's gonna be. You never know what you'll get. Back and forth. But it is nice. I like going back watching some of these movies because I do have a different perspective, like As an adult, sometimes I still am cheering for the same character, like I, you know, like, but then sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, you totally flocked, you know, totally switched. Right,

Tanya:

yeah. Like, I don't see why, like, that person, or like, maybe I've just grown past that, or you don't identify with that person anymore, yeah. Yeah, for sure. so we, well, we hope you enjoyed this discussion of Practical Magic. Let us know if you have any favorites, Spooky Season or otherwise, or just in general, any, anything. We always love to hear any ideas that you have for us to discuss. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapists. On Facebook, we are the Wicked Psychotherapists. Subscribe and follow us wherever.

Erin:

Yeah, we have like, I think, every week This, you probably would have already heard a Halloween one by this week, but every week we're gonna have a fun Halloween episode coming out.

Tanya:

Yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a nice October. And of course, as you know, we love it. And I do want to give a shout out on our Instagram to this coffee I discovered. It's Jim's. We don't have any affiliation with them. I'm just doing this because I love it. It's Jim's Organic Coffee. It was called a witchy brew and it's very dark. It's delicious. So I tried that. I got it from Whole Foods. Yummy. Give it a shot. And it's got witchy brew in the title.

Erin:

Yeah, why not? We like witches. So Tanya's going to be flying high doing her therapy notes later. Yep. Lots of concentration. Yeah.

Tanya:

Lots of concentration. Lots of gibberish. Yeah. But yeah, and don't forget, stay wicked.

Erin:

And keep your mind well. Have a good week. Okay. Bye bye. Bye

Tanya (2):

guys. See you next week.

We Wish You a Merry Christmas I'm going to be doing a lot of this. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!

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Erin

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Tanya Santos

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