M. Night Shyamalan's The Village: Grief, Secrets, and Spooky Creatures

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, hosts Tanya and Erin explore the psychological themes of M. Night Shyamalan's 2004 film, 'The Village,' delving into fear, control, and societal structures in a fictional puritanical utopia. 

They analyze how trauma, environment, and myths influence behavior and maintain social order, with special focus on the film's notable elements like color symbolism and character dynamics. 

The episode also features a deep dive into key characters, Ivy and Noah, and discusses their journeys in the context of unprocessed grief and trauma. 

The hosts offer personal reactions, insights on storytelling impact, and draw comparisons to real-world societal norms and fears. 

Additionally, they brainstorm quirky film titles and genres, including an Amish-themed Muppet psychological genre, and encourage listeners to stay engaged on social media.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

Erin: 0:31

Hey guys, this is Tanya. Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

tanya: 0:35

Yeah, welcome. So we've been off on a little hiatus. You guys don't know that. We've been, releasing anyways, Erin's been very vigilant about releasing the episodes, but we've been off for a little bit. So we're I'm feeling a little rusty. I don't know about you, how you're feeling about. I don't know. I will see

Erin: 0:53

how, yeah, it feels if I have a little anxiety, like, or nervousness, because it's like, feels like the first episode again, but I'm sure we'll be back to it.

tanya: 1:02

Yeah we'll get

Erin: 1:02

into it. Yeah,

tanya: 1:03

but the exciting thing is right now, it's almost October. It's tomorrow for us, you know, when you're listening to this, it probably will already be well into October, maybe past it. I don't know.

Erin: 1:15

I think it's going to be like sometime in October.

tanya: 1:17

Okay, so we're just, we're a little bit ahead but we're getting set up for Spooky Season, which is always exciting. And we decided to focus on a movie, which probably a lot of people have watched or heard of, called The Village. M. Night Shyamalan's The Village and it's about 20 years old. It was made in 2004, or released in 2004. So, most people have probably even seen it, or, you know, heard of it. It's one of those movies where you probably know the premise, or maybe you're just interested in it, but it's a pretty spooky movie, but it's also got a lot of mental health themes that we thought were interesting, and kind of psychology, creepiness. So we thought we'd get into that a little bit. Yeah, we figured.

Erin: 2:01

Yeah, we thought it would be a good Halloween slash psychology movie.

tanya: 2:06

Yeah, those are always fun to, to talk about because we can, you know, get into some Halloween modes, but also keep on with the psychology and all that good stuff. Yeah, so I am curious because I had watched this way back when, probably not the year it came out, but around that time. And then I think I've seen it a couple times since. But this is your first time watching it, right? Yeah

Erin: 2:29

I don't even know how I never even heard about it. But this, that, this was the first time I ever saw it.

tanya: 2:34

What were kind of some of your raw reactions to it? Because you are like a first timer and just watched it. So I'm curious. Yeah,

Erin: 2:43

I was well, at first I was like, oh my gosh, it seemed a little, you know, Boring at first, you know, like, because everyone's, it's in whatever year it's supposed to be in, you feel like it's in, and it's very Amish feeling and just. Kind of slow. Yeah, kind of slow. You're not the way. The direction was and everything you're not really getting to feel like you get to know the characters at first I was like, it's very drawn out But then when they start talking about the creatures or whatever is happening in the woods, it's okay It's like okay, this seems like it's pretty interesting and you start getting tied in the characters I did get invested in it, and I did like it, and it was a little spooky. I tried not to cheat and read too much, I tried not to look it up, because, now we can, because it's so many years ahead, but the way it was being set up it felt, at first, is somebody doing this? Or what is happening? So, it was, I, at first, I was trying to figure out the whole time, I was trying Of us.

tanya: 3:42

Oh, like the, like, animals getting skinned. Yeah, like I was trying to figure out, yeah, creatures in the

Erin: 3:46

woods or whatever. Yeah, I was trying to figure out what is happening.

tanya: 3:49

Yeah, and I can't quite, you know, for my own experience, like, watching it way back when, I think I kind of looked at it as more spooky and then it felt anticlimactic When they discovered, and there's a ton of spoiler alerts, you all know this is a 20 year old movie, so we're gonna just talk about it. We're gonna talk about it, yeah. But it, I mean, when they discover that the creatures of those who don't speak their names or say, you know, speak of the creatures in red, which is like, you know, this color that they avoid and see as like dangerous and whatever but, You find that they're not real. It's actually, the elders kind of keeping that in as like a tool for control, you know, fear the natural fear that people to, to keep them kind of not only obeying the rules, but also to keep them in this, uh, this society, right? And to kind of keep them, you know, the towns are the bad places, we out where and, you know, those are, that's where violence happens and this is where you're safe. And so kind of keeping that fear mechanism is those unknown creatures that they just know as bad. But I kind of saw that as like, ah, this is, you know, cause like M. Night Shyamalan has all these like awesome twists in his movies. Like this was his fourth movie, I believe. And he had like you know, the sixth sense, signs, and I don't remember what the other one is, but this was his fourth one. And they all had pretty good twists. And so I think, and I think a lot of people at the time felt this way too, that this was kind of a letdown in the spooky, like fear factor. But in terms of like the psychological, meanings behind that it was yeah, it's really interesting a lot of these themes and I actually can appreciate that more I think now watching it.

Erin: 5:26

Yeah and maybe that's what he was trying to do was trying to have that more psychological aspect of it of that. Yeah

tanya: 5:34

and I think also keep people guessing like he didn't necessarily want to give them the predictable twist you know because it had become predictable to a formula for his movies so I mean I don't know this is just my own speculation but. I do feel like my thoughts about it have changed, like re watching it just recently, like over the weekend. I caught a lot more things that I did not catch, either because I just wasn't paying attention, or I just, I don't know, just didn't catch it. about the you know, the elders and that they were all at this counseling center. I actually kind of missed that aspect. I knew that they had all like suffered these traumas, but I didn't really understand how they all came together. And I kind of missed that scene where they showed like them at the counseling center. It just says Counseling Center. Yeah,

Erin: 6:17

very generic.

tanya: 6:18

But I kind of was like, Oh, okay. And then when he talks about like him as, you know, an American history professor, his dad is a billionaire and he could kind of put this all together.

Erin: 6:28

Yeah.

tanya: 6:28

And I felt like, oh, okay that, that makes sense, you know. I

Erin: 6:31

wonder, but they don't really say what made him talk to them and say, like, basically, let's continue our group grief counseling forever. Like, what do you think made? Made them all come to that talk or that realization outside of the counseling center.

tanya: 6:48

I wonder if it was seeing the depth of trauma from those environmental factors and the violence all around and feeling like there's no control. This is not getting any better. There was like the height of violence. At that time, they had each, the elders had each experienced in their, you know, past lives in the quote unquote towns, like just being out in modern day life you know, violent episodes, and I think it overtook them so much that it felt like maybe he felt like, well, this could be a solution, you know, like this could be kind of a radical solution, right? But, One that maybe, almost in a way, was questioning, you know, is it the environment, or maybe the perspective of it's the environment

Erin: 7:28

that

tanya: 7:29

is causing this. And as we come to see things that play out, that's not quite true, even though they manage to keep the society intact at the end. So I think it was probably the level that going week after week to this grief group and seeing like, Oh my gosh, these people are just affected. There's no way to escape this. Yeah. A different solution.

Erin: 7:48

Yeah. Cause I think maybe here, yeah, I think you're right. Like hearing all the horrific stuff that happened to them and realizing that most of the deaths because of other people, because, when you're in this, Grief and this trauma and you're surrounded by and you're hearing about it every week. You feel like there's no escape and it's all around us. So how can all of us be safe together and let's create our own little society?

tanya: 8:13

Yeah, and they definitely have like it's like a puritanical utopia. I think you know, it's kind of like a An idealized version of, you know, what went wrong with modern day society. And as you pointed out the different violence crimes that each person's, like, loved ones had suffered, they seem to amend in this society, with the money aspect with the dad who was a billionaire and he got shot because he was a billionaire not having money or any form of money system having a more like collectivist communal society, like modest dress and kind of values of like courting of, you know, the 1800s in the United States kind of thing because of someone's, One of the elder's sisters had been raped and killed and, you know, kind of that not to say that dressing modestly is anything that would have solved that at all. I think they're trying

Erin: 9:02

to say, okay what factors can we control?

tanya: 9:05

Yeah, right, right.

Erin: 9:07

And,

tanya: 9:07

Yeah, and I thought this was really interesting though, kind of looking at it from this point of view. And I agree with you, I did find it, weird because when I first watched it back in like the early 2000s. I think I kind of felt like, oh, this is like, it was very suspenseful seeing all the like, kind of space, like the shots where they're just like showing the different objects and Like, you know, like the rocking chairs and like the kind of emptiness of the village. And I kind of was like, Ooh, this is suspenseful. But now I was finding myself getting a little bit bored with that. And I was what the heck is this? And then I did remember, you know, I was like, Oh, I think these might be symbols. Like, I think it's kind of like the rocking chair is a definite symbol of like the seat of power or like who makes the rules. When Noah, the developmentally delayed man, when he, you know, kind of when he stabs Lucius, he goes and sits in the, you know, kind of seat, you know, and it's like, I'm making the rules now. And then when no one's sitting in it, it feels kind of chaotic. Like what's going on, you know, pushing the boundaries kind of

Erin: 10:06

thing. Well, I was thinking also when the dad. Edward Walker was talking to Ivy. He was saying that the rocking chair was when, was where he was when he found out that she was going to be blind. So I guess the rocking chair really does symbolize a lot of different things for everybody.

tanya: 10:24

Yeah, I kind of was wondering, and this is just totally my own thinking about this, if When he heard that news that my daughter's going to be blind, if there was any kind of like modern medicine that maybe would have helped, but they felt like, well, we have to stick to the rules of this society. You know, and I don't know because they never really mentioned what it was that caused her to go blind.

Erin: 10:46

And maybe there wasn't a loophole. Like now there was a loophole because the one senior council member was telling him, you know, you cannot leave. You cannot go in the woods and you cannot go to town. But basically saying like, hey, we never said your daughter can't. We never said someone else can't.

tanya: 11:05

Right. Yeah.

Erin: 11:06

So maybe at that time when his daughter was, when Ivy was going blind, there wasn't anyone else that was old enough or that they trusted enough that could go.

tanya: 11:16

Yeah, and the fact that it's a, as odd as it sounds, her being blind to go for because when Lucius gets stabbed, that's technically, I guess, they're engaged or something at that point, or they're, it's known that they're kind of like in love or whatever you know, that not only does she have kind of that power of like love driving her, Which I think is kind of a theme there. I don't know. But also she cannot physically see. She will not be able to bring that back into the town. She will not physically be able to see the things, the elements that are modern day and be able to like kind of almost corrupt maybe the view or you know,

Erin: 11:52

confuse everyone else. It won't be shocking for her. So like when the park ranger sees her. Or she hears the car and she's like, what is that? What's that noise? He never said which is interesting. He never said it's my car or my truck. He just almost changes the subjects and keeps talking to her. So in her mind, she's probably well, that was kind of a weird noise I don't know what it was. I was never explained what automobiles are And if she didn't, and if she had sight, yeah, she would have seen him, she would have talked to him,

tanya: 12:21

Yeah. And so it's, she's, she is a safe choice in that regard, but she's also got a very good instinct in herself, like the father knows, Ivy's father knows that she is able to guide herself. She has good intuition, like even though she can't see. She knows a lot. And she's like very, and she's got that like tomboy ness they kept pointing to, which is like kind of linked to bravery and courage. So. She's a good choice for that to go in and, you know, get the, retrieve the medicines. you know, some of the themes I keep seeing and I keep kind of wondering, and you brought this up too, is like the colors, right? And the colors are all over. You know, they talk about the villagers, they talk about, like, the red, like red if it shows up, it has to be buried because red can't be in sight. It represents danger, sin. And, like, the others, kind of, or those that we don't speak of, kind of the creatures, like, that's something we just need to keep away. And then, you know, they only wear yellow as, like, representation of innocence or whatever. Purity, I don't know, but It's almost kind of like a willful blindness, like the, from the elder's perspective, right, because they're we know that these things are not necessarily inherently bad, but we need to, like, they had to create a structure of fear and, like,

Erin: 13:34

control,

tanya: 13:35

I guess. Yeah, we, yeah,

Erin: 13:36

so that, again, when they decided to make their little community, they had to make, like, magical thinking or, Just things that would represent fear or why would they not want to go in the woods? Or why would they not want to escape? So let's represent the big bad wolf in a sense So when I saw the costume it was hard for me to really take the costume serious when you see it because it looks like a, it looks like a mixture of like Little Red Riding Hood with a porcupine in the back and like just, and a wolf. It was just so weird. It was just like such a strange thing, but if you're, if that's all you know, I mean it's probably terrifying. You don't think of like, this looks so fake. This is just a person in a costume.

tanya: 14:18

Yeah, and that may be part of it, is that like, even though this does look fake, but to them, yeah, that's all they would know as fear, like the second generation. That's all they would know is like, oh, that's bad, that's scary, you know, if I ever saw that.

Erin: 14:33

Right

tanya: 14:33

and the color red and things that are spiky and claws and growling and you know I don't know what those things are. It's interesting because I think of how other societies like their myths and fairy tales and You know parables things like that are and I'm thinking like very anthropologically like those cultures have been set up for, you know, generations of, you know, just like decades of sorry, not decades, centuries, like, you know, from the beginning of time, you know, they've been set up. That's what I'm trying to get to. I keep like underscore, like, I'm like belittling the amount of time that they've always had those to keep it's a way of keeping some sort of order, right? For the young people who, like, maybe might venture out and might go get lost and might go get hurt or might be eaten by, like, a wild animal. You have to kind of create. Stories of fear or stories of, you know, kind of saying, like, you need to stay here. You need to do this to grow up safely. And

Erin: 15:29

yeah,

tanya: 15:30

Yeah, there's also,

Erin: 15:31

Yeah, there's the witch that eats children or, you know, there's the wolf. There's this. And so, yeah, so there's always been something.

tanya: 15:38

the boogeyman that's under your bed. I mean, like, there's always something. You know, I think that's kind of instilled in, you know, maybe younger people, but also something that you grow up with that kind of coincides to say, this is why I don't do this, or this is why I do this. And some people could say also religion has, you know, like, you know, kind of structure to it to say, this is why we don't do this. These are the stories why we, you know, follow things that are good and things that are bad. This is what will happen when you're good. This is what will happen when you're bad. And I think that definitely goes into play in creating a society. You have to have That instilled in there. You know, and so I think they did that with the those you don't speak of creatures Yeah, and the towns and creating kind of this element of like fear as a control. Yeah. Yeah

Erin: 16:24

That's their way of almost doing like law and order type of thing. So well,

tanya: 16:29

Yeah, and also I think with the elimination of money and all that, and kind of saying, okay, we look out for each other. We make sure, everybody's okay, but we also do everything to make sure we have this collective dinner for everybody. Everybody gets fed. and this all sounds great. And I'm sure it does have awesome aspects to it, but it doesn't keep them safe a hundred percent. I just kept thinking when I first watched this, I was like, you can't get away from the nature of man, and that's where kind of that psychology I think comes in, like that trauma, your reaction to trauma of violence out there and avoiding certain aspects or putting them over there and saying they can't penetrate over here, we're going to do everything to keep that away it doesn't seem like a great. It's not taking everything into account, I think of the nature of people, you know, and how they will, people can get violent, doesn't matter how well they're taking care of you know, people can get upset, people can get angry, feel rejected you know, go out and harm an animal, you know, like those types of things. I think some people took issue to this because it was portrayed as Noah, the developmentally disabled character portrayed by Adrian Brody, that he was the one that was kind of doing all these things. And I think there was an element of like, he doesn't really understand the rules, so he's going to violate these and, you know, maybe kind of just act out in a way that's like, very emotionally laced. But I, I think that could be, Any set of people, you know, and I,

Erin: 17:58

yeah, and I think all the animals and everything, I think that was the senior leadership or whatever they call themselves, because I think they were trying to Scare them. And then, you know, Noah ended up dressing up like the character, like the creature after he is locked up in the room, because then he somehow went into the basement and found the. the costume. I don't think that he had been doing it before. I think he just found it then, unless he was doing it the whole time.

tanya: 18:27

I wasn't clear on that because somebody, I think Ivy did mention or somebody mentioned at the end that like, you know, that you would get upset and you would, you know, kill animals. But then, yeah, they did say, well, you know, the guy had said, I suspect it's a senior member, somebody that is. So I'm not clear on that. I don't know. But In either instance, I mean, Noah was definitely acting out. We don't know if, like, the animals were a fear mechanism or whatever ways, but he definitely, you know, stabbed Lucius and then tried to attack or kill Ivy.

Erin: 19:00

Yeah, and he knew it was her. So even though she didn't know he was in the costume, he knew she was. You know, he knew what he was doing to her.

tanya: 19:09

Yeah, and you know, one thing, I actually, you know, there's another thing that I had a question about, and I don't know what you thought about this, I don't know if this was like wrapped up, or maybe this is just all part of like, M. Night Shyamalan kind of doesn't want it to be answered, and wants you to kind of just think about it, you know, but is when, I think it was when Ivy's father was prepping her to go into the woods and like was telling her all these creatures aren't real, we do this as like a, you know, mechanism, and then he said, although I did read textbooks, in textbooks that there, there were creatures in these woods, like he felt the need to mention that to her, like, I don't know if he was still trying to like keep her scared, or if he was trying to warn her, like, I don't know, maybe there is something in there actually.

Erin: 19:49

I think he was kind of lying about that part. I think he was still trying to hold on to the lie that he's been saying for so many, so long that it almost had to be like, okay, well, you know, remember I was a history professor. He didn't say that, but it was just almost like, okay, well, in my teachings or what I've read in the past is. I think that was why, because he could have said, like, there's animals, there's wild animals, there are coyotes, there are whatever bear, whatever's in that area. But instead he's, he felt the need to say, we've made this all up, but, you know, in my books or in my teachings, there was sightings in the past.

tanya: 20:30

Which I kind of, I tend to agree, I think that's probably what it was because I, and again, this is probably looking at it too deeply, but I feel like there's almost an element of like, if you're in a, any society, you almost need fear, like at least a little bit of fear of something to say, maybe, you know, to kind of keep you from just kind of, I don't know, maybe, you know, running around and going wild and then actually getting harmed by something that you don't know about, like the fear of the unknown.

Erin: 21:01

Yeah.

tanya: 21:01

You know, and so I think he maybe felt the need to reinstall that a little bit in her because she was becoming aware of this big secret. And maybe even for himself too.

Erin: 21:10

Yeah.

tanya: 21:11

You know, to kind of be like, even if he knows it's not true, to kind of be like, Oh, there could be something, you know, like there has to be kind of this, because as much as I think some people in, you know, if, with like religion or spirituality, they need to know that there's something looking out for them, maybe they need to know that there's something to look out for, too. Like there's something that you need to be vigilant about, too. I wonder if there was like some sort of element with that, with a society or something.

Erin: 21:34

Yeah, and it might have also been justifying his cause or the group's cause of why they've been doing it. So You know, to alleviate some of his guilt and shame, if he had any, for this.

tanya: 21:47

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think there could have been so many different, like, elements to that, and I mean, it really is a movie that I think a lot of people were at the time in 2004 were disappointed in this. They felt like it was very anticlimactic. Like they just learned that like, oh, that's not real. Then this isn't scary. I'm just going into the woods. Nothing's going to happen. But I don't agree with that. I actually was. I, even though I knew it was Noah in that suit, I was well, she still had something to be scared about, you know, like it's something still came after her.

Erin: 22:19

yeah, because you have to remember, even though they're not showing total darkness, she's blind in this whole thing. Yeah, and she's just going on, her colors that she can see, or so it's very, it's probably very scary and. you wonder what was Noah's whole purpose besides to murder her, that was probably his whole goal.

tanya: 22:37

Yeah, I mean, I think he felt very rejected and I think he probably just had a build up of like, knowing that he's very different, he gets treated very differently. Although Ivy herself, I think, was very fair with him. We saw that, like, in the beginning. Yeah, because she, I mean,

Erin: 22:50

like, and she was disabled as well, so.

tanya: 22:52

Yeah. Yeah, she,

Erin: 22:53

and she was. She treated him, she didn't, you didn't hear her talk down to him or even treat him different. It was just, Yeah. Look, you can't be violent. You can't hit people.

tanya: 23:02

Yeah.

Erin: 23:02

Yeah.

tanya: 23:03

Which is actually when I think about that, it's kind of interesting because he has this developmental disability that sets him apart from everybody. He's very keenly aware of it, although I don't think people shame him for it. He kind, he knows he's aware, he knows that he's like always kind of got this urge and there's always kind of, you know, he's kind of like always starting fights and things like that. It's almost like he is, and I know it's very therapist y here that I'm saying these things, but like he doesn't have this, like, it's not, he's not given any space to be like, yeah this is probably really frustrating. Instead it's like, don't hit, don't be violent, which is like what's needed for the community, but, and for him not to get in trouble, but he probably doesn't know what to do with that, like, frustration and like, why am I different? And what's going on here? And. Like, I don't really get this. And why doesn't Ivy like me? Why does she, you know, like, he doesn't get these things. There's gotta be a lot of frustration, sadness, anger there. You know we do try to, with people who have, developmental disabilities or delays or whatever, we do try to kind of work with people on trying to being able to express their emotions but in a healthy manner and so he was kind of encouraged to just not do it. Repress it. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin: 24:18

Repress it. And that's not in real life. That wouldn't be. The best option or real, realistic to just be like, all right, don't hit. Okay, just don't giggle inappropriately. Just, you know, you would, you know, yeah, there would be some therapy involved or some other replacement skills.

tanya: 24:36

Just kind of funny, because they all met in a counseling center. I mean, like, I know they're going, they know they're going back. Counseling

Erin: 24:42

center.

tanya: 24:43

Counseling center. Yeah, they met at counseling center. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of odd to me they probably just were like, well, we just, we'll stick to these values that this is what kind of, this is what would have, you know, been, you know, the values for this. Yeah. And none

Erin: 24:59

of them are therapists, remember they're all members. and they don't ever say if it's like a self help group or if it's run by a therapist because now they're all trauma bond. So they're all they all met at this counseling center for grief. And they wanted to continue, but nobody there is probably trained on what to do with it. You know, how do you continue to move forward with this trauma instead of like, they've just pretty much made this safety to, to enclose themselves in. So they're not going to have any more.

tanya: 25:33

Yeah, for sure. It sounds kind of like it was definitely a grief group. You know, it was definitely like a trauma or grief group. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point because they didn't, they, you know, like, I think they probably thought like, okay, we're just going to go back to these values if that's, if that environmentally, if all the violence is erased, then this problem isn't there. But

Erin: 25:52

yeah,

tanya: 25:52

obviously the trauma was showing up in other places because there was avoidance. There was like fear tactic controls, you know, and that was also for like the quote unquote good of the society, but it was in response to those trauma,

Erin: 26:06

too. Yeah and they probably have never really worked on really processing their grief completely, because even like when that Mrs. Clark was talking to Ivy, you know, and she was talking about the sister relationships and stuff like that, and then, You know, I'd be asked, like, oh, blah, blah, blah, about her sister, and she's like, oh, well, my sister died, didn't, you know, died when she was, like, 23, you know, and then she explained how she died, you know, and it sounded like you could even see, like, she's still, I don't want to say stuck there, but it just seems like she's, has difficulty really talking about her sister, and it seemed like it was just really, You know, like, there's probably still a lot of unresolved grief.

tanya: 26:44

Yeah, for sure. I think they took this grief and this fear and this trauma and they said, you know, Ivy's dad was very much into this idea, designing this idea, and maybe they felt like, well, this is the solution, and You know, unprocessed grief and trauma, as we well know, is gonna, it's still gonna show up, not only in individuals, but in a collective society, no matter what your values are, it's still going to be there. And I, I do think there is an element to humans that you can absolutely have, you know, emotions dysregulated, and that causes anger, violence, disruption, that you can't I don't know that you can avoid and, you know, kind of eliminate, totally. So, you know, sometimes when people, you know, and probably younger idealistic people, but not totally, kind of think, well, we just need like world peace and this and that. And I'm not saying like, yeah, sure, that would be great. But there, there's so many other complex elements it's not just like people doing bad things and then that's creating violence. Right. Stuff within us and our interactions together. And it goes through

Erin: 27:50

generations, like you had said earlier. Like, you know, like a lot of things. You know, it's not just something that happened last week. It's decades. Sometimes it's hundreds of years. You know, like, that people are hearing the same stories. And so, for them, it's true.

tanya: 28:06

Yeah, and the reactions of it and how they manage it, how they set up their household, how they set up their society, if they go and start a utopian society you know, that kind of thing is really a reflection of the trauma that they have. And yeah, I think it's very apparent here. to me, it kind of feels like it was extreme grief and fear that they felt like, Let's just place ourselves in this really safe place keep out all of these quote unquote monsters But then one of the people in the village becomes a monster. Yeah, you know Yeah, literally is in a monster costume one of the monster cost. Yeah, whatever.

Erin: 28:44

Yeah, and they didn't plan on that But it's interesting too After it's discovered that Ivy killed one of the monsters and then the dad Tells Noah's parents, sorry for your grief, sorry for your loss. we'll give him a burial, blah, blah, blah. But basically saying he did as a service, Now he's helped protect us with the story, so now we're all gonna stay safe.

tanya: 29:07

Yeah. He kept his system place because now one place's, no one's gonna place.

Erin: 29:09

Yeah. No one's gonna wanna leave.'cause they'll always have that. Story that Ivy ran into a creature and had to kill them, right?

tanya: 29:18

Yeah, and it's I mean it is as a therapist I'm interested what happened after you know if Ivy kind of pieced some things together because she's no dummy you know, and if the elders, their grief, some of that, you know, the parents of Noah, some of that spilled out and I don't know, there's just, there's a whole bunch of elements that would probably threaten the structure of Yeah. Of that society.

Erin: 29:40

Yeah.'cause it seems like they're, Noah's parents are just expected to be compliant. Like, so I guess, I guess the story is that Noah was murdered by a creature or whatever they call him, and then Ivy killed it. then. Noah's parents are just like, all right, sit with our grief and, the way that you tell us we need to, interesting, but it's hard too, because in the same Noah was trying to kill Ivy, but again, there's so many different layers. we don't really know what was happening, like why he was thinking that way

tanya: 30:09

Do you think Ivy, Ivy would piece that together, right? Like, I think so.

Erin: 30:13

She was real, like you said, like, she was really smart, really you know, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem like her fiance is really that bright, just really kind, but, you know, her. Love interest Lucius. Yeah, he seems very kind but not very you know, like he didn't seem like the brightest like

tanya: 30:28

a man of action I think yeah, you know, like yeah very much like but he seems to He actually does seem to know things like he kind of seems to

Erin: 30:37

be aware I don't know. He's

tanya: 30:38

got like a quiet way about him But yeah, very much like I think he's very observant, but he doesn't yeah Maybe the compliance

Erin: 30:45

is what made me feel like he wasn't the I don't wanna say brightest But it just seemed like he was just very All right, you say I can't do this, but I'm going to ask again, and you know what, let me just be very, he's very much a rule follower.

tanya: 30:57

He's loyal, and he's a protector, you know, I think that's his main role in that, and he definitely sees Ivy as someone to protect, he kind of always has. But yeah I think that this is just such a it says so many interesting things. I think some people just looked at it as a spooky movie and were disappointed by, like, how things came up. But with M. Night Shyamalan, it's not just a spooky movie. It's very much like there are, it's not just twists either. I think there's very much, there's, Psychological. Yeah.

Erin: 31:29

Yeah. And it is, because at first when you think, when you first hear that they've been doing this, you know, like I know, like gaslighting is a word everyone uses and you know, it's, you know, it is, it's like basically they've all been lied to and you know, this whole thing of secrecy is everywhere, but when you hear Ivy's dad kind of explain everything and when Ivy's father and mother were looking at all the past pictures. And you hear the stories of the senior leadership in the background while they're looking at it. I don't want to say they're justified for their behavior, but it makes more sense. And you I wasn't as annoyed or angry at them. I, because it's like, okay. This is the option they felt like they had. They Yeah, I

tanya: 32:11

think it does make sense. Yeah, I think it does because you can hear the fear and the feeling of like this is just out of control. We need to get away from this, but how do you get away from society? And so we make our own.

Erin: 32:25

Yeah, and he's like, listen to me. I hear me out. You know, like I have all the money in the world, or

tanya: 32:30

Yeah. I mean, it definitely does, but it certainly didn't take into account human nature, right? It wasn't, you know, that these things can, it's still there. It'll still pop up. It'll still, and not just in developmentally delayed people, in anyone. I think it just happened to be. In this particular movie showcased in that and I, I don't know that M. Night Shyamalan was saying anything I saw on some reddit boards that people were very offended by that, but I don't think that was

Erin: 32:58

no,

tanya: 32:59

his intention. I don't think. Yeah. And

Erin: 33:01

yeah, I don't think so, but I think also. Just even having such tight community, and there's no real escape, I imagine that would cause hostile environment or just odd environment for everybody living in that after so long.

tanya: 33:17

Yeah. And I mean, it definitely has to probably show in the education, like you see in the classroom when the teacher is talking about and is like, right, it is the others, like it just keeps that those are the lessons that get instilled is about those that we don't speak of. The unknown, the things that are scary, but there's those uncontrolled elements Noah, you know, like Noah's way of thinking is different than everyone's because you can't necessarily understand some of those things and there's gonna be other kids that maybe question things or maybe you want to go in the woods or maybe you know, or like this doesn't sound right, you know, there's always going to be those uncontrolled elements. Yeah, and to

Erin: 33:54

challenge things and also how they had Noah basically mainstream classroom. So it's like everyone was accepting of Noah and his disabilities too.

tanya: 34:05

Yeah, that was definitely, I think and also Ivy as well, because during her sister's wedding they like include her in all the dances, they want her, you know, they want her to be able to, you know, she still takes part in like all the chores, and she's very much like considered a respected adult. Kind of figure with the children and everything. So, yeah, it is very much accepting, but it's maybe not understanding their world, you know, and the world that may be why some things might be difficult. And we don't really see too much with Ivy because Ivy's like kind of considered to be resilient in this world. Right. With Noah, you definitely start to see that. So, yeah, so I do want to ask, I know we kind of have to wrap up here, but how would you categorize this movie? Like, would you say this is a Halloween movie? Would you say this is a spooky movie? Psychological thriller? Like, what? Or is it kind of hard to categorize? Because I have no time with that.

Erin: 34:59

I don't think I would say it was Halloween. I guess, I guess, More of a psychological thriller, I guess. Because it's not horror. It's especially when you see the costume, you're like, what? Is it a Muppet? Is it, you know, but It's like

tanya: 35:14

a Muppet, a porcupine Muppet.

Erin: 35:17

Like the big tall Muppets that were always really scary. yeah, I think it is just more of those, like, I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know. What, you know, like, and you, it's one of those movies too, I noticed I had to stay completely focused while I was watching it because, you know, like sometimes like we're, you know, as a society, you might be like, let me look at my phone, let me do this while I felt like I had to, be present and just focus on the movie.

tanya: 35:40

Yeah. Yeah. Because there's so much on set, I think it's more shown.

Erin: 35:45

Yeah. So that's what I noticed. which was nice because it is nice to be fully engulfed in a movie. I do feel like it probably was. Drawing me more into a psychological aspect because even though I there wasn't much character development for the first half You know, I felt like all right I don't really care that the sister's crying She's yeah, I don't you know, so like it wasn't

tanya: 36:05

really a lot of development and character I actually was kind of giggling when the sister yeah, I'm like with the rejection because yeah, what a fool, you know Yeah,

Erin: 36:13

it's like you know, it doesn't need being a mean girl Yeah, it didn't even seem like he liked you and, you know, just assumed that he's gonna love you because you love him. And I think the father probably knew. He's like, don't announce it. Don't say anything. Don't

tanya: 36:26

say anything yet,

Erin: 36:27

kitty. Yeah, cuz you know, because he probably knew. He loves Ivy.

tanya: 36:32

Yeah. Yeah and plus he probably knows Kitty is kind of probably delusional

Erin: 36:38

or whatever. Yeah, I was a little expecting everyone to love her. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it didn't have like, it's funny when I first started watching it, when you mentioned, Okay, we're gonna watch the village and it's this Amish type of thing. I was totally picturing, I, that's, I was like, I don't know. I'm gonna be scared. I thought it was gonna be like Children of the Corn. Type of like Malachi type of stuff happening, but it was it was still kind of like weird, but Not terrifying.

tanya: 37:07

Yeah, it is, it's a strange one to categorize. That's why I couldn't really, when I was trying to describe it to you, I was like, it's sort of scary, but like, not really. I don't know, there's elements of it that are ooh, you kind of, you know, are in the, what's in the unknown, what's in the woods, but you kind of have this sense that like, I don't know, something seems off with the way they're describing that and trying to scare them constantly with that. But it's, yeah, I would say it's more like a psychological something. I don't know. I don't know that it's really even like, it's not really a thriller. It's kind of more of like a psychological movie. Yeah, movie. I don't know. Yeah, something. Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah, I don't. Movies. Yeah, Amish

Erin: 37:47

themed.

tanya: 37:49

Psychological. Amish themed psychological movie. That's our assessment. That's our. Yeah.

Erin: 37:53

I mean, I don't know. Muppet, Muppets. Yeah. Muppet

tanya: 37:57

Muppet Amish themed Muppet. Yeah. Psychological.

Erin: 38:00

Yeah, I'd watch that genre. Yeah. I would too, actually. If I saw that as like in the thing, like Amish Muppet themed psychological something.

tanya: 38:10

Psychological.

Erin: 38:11

Picture. Yeah. Cause it feels like an old timey picture. Grief laden. Grief laden picture.

tanya: 38:16

Yeah. Grief laden, odd picture. Yeah. Yeah. I'd watch it.

Erin: 38:20

Yeah.

tanya: 38:20

But that's what we would name it, folks. So we hope you, if you come up with something different please let us know that. We would love that. But we hope you enjoyed this discussion of the village, uh, if you haven't seen it. And this is not, there's actually another. Another, I don't know if it's a series or a movie on Netflix right now called The Village, which is not the one that we're talking about, we're talking about The Night Shyamalan. But that is something I actually think I might want to watch. I think it's a Japanese movie that, you know, would have subtitles for us non Japanese speaking people. But I actually want to watch that. It looks kind of freaky and weird. But. That's, we're not talking about that. But let us know if you would like us to. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapists. We're on Facebook as The Wicked Psychotherapists. Subscribe, follow wherever there are podcasts. We are everywhere. And don't forget, stay wicked.

Erin: 39:15

And keep your mind well. All right, well have a good week and we'll talk to you soon. Bye bye. Have a good one guys. Bye bye.

39:22

We Wish You a Merry Christmas And, uh, I'll see you next time.