Understanding Codependency: Are You Okay?

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Tanya and Erin discuss the concept of codependency, its impact on various types of relationships, and the origins often rooted in trauma and dysfunctional family dynamics. 

They touch on common misconceptions, the relationship between codependency and substance abuse, and how these patterns affect individuals' self-esteem and interactions. 

The hosts also highlight the importance of therapy and personal growth in overcoming codependent behaviors and establishing healthy boundaries.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

erin: 0:31

Hey guys, it's Tanya. Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

Tanya: 0:35

Yes, welcome guys and thank you if you are returning you know that We talk about various topics here in mental health. We don't, you know, it's very light topics. Nothing too heavy. But yeah if you're new here, welcome. So today we're going to be talking about codependency, which is another kind of buzzword I feel like on TikTok. It's been don't have, I don't have the TikTok.

Both: 0:58

I was just going to say, Tanya, you're,

erin: 1:00

you're so hip now. I didn't realize that you had, I don't, I just see it through like, like Instagram, you know how they put up, yeah, that's how I get mine, some videos, that's the only way I see it. So I guess I kind of do, but like, it's not authentically me searching on TikTok, so I don't want to give anyone the impression I am hip. but I think that codependency is something that is not well defined for some people. I do find that clients come and they're like, am I codependent? Is this, they get a little confused. So I think we thought we'd just have a show about that. Yeah.

Tanya: 1:29

so codependency. is like more of a psychological term that we use. It's not a disorder, right? It's more of a dynamic more something that somebody might have to work with within their personality within their traits. And it can definitely affect intimate relationships. It can also affect friendships. It can affect child and parents, like child parent relationships too. It can be pretty much any relationship. Which I think is kind of one of the first things that maybe we should talk about is that this is not, I think what some people hear codependent. They only think of it as being in an intimate relationship. When it really can span into any, two people, three people, anything, right? Where there is someone who feels that they need to take on someone else's feelings. For needs more so than their own which sounds kind of strange, maybe to some people who don't understand that let's talk about like some of the factors that maybe would evolve in someone to have them develop into, you know, having a codependency. Either trait or there is a DSM diagnosis of dependent personality disorder, which is somewhat kind of similar to codependency, but it would have to be really prominent in their personality profile. So, what do you think is something that makes or would predispose someone to becoming codependent or having codependent relationships? Trauma.

erin: 2:54

when I originally think of the word codependency or when I think of it, I often think of lot of times you side by side with family members who have somebody who is in substance abuse or, you know, like that is always a buzzword with like adult children of alcoholics or people who are an al anon or anything like that. You always hear the Codependency relationship where oftentimes when there's somebody who's struggling with something, you know where the family members may either try to Everything's okay. I'm you know, I'm there with him. I You know like you do take on that everything about that person Is yours now how they feel how they act how they if they're happy if they're sad If they're having a good day, you're having a good day if they're having a bad day you're having a bad day and you kind of lose yourself and so when I do think of that word oftentimes I think of how that feels how that may you know, like feels yeah, because you do because that is like I know i've shared I when I was younger my parents like to drink a little bit. you know, so we went to Alateen and stuff like that. And I remember that was always a conversation that was always something that was mentioned, like what codependency is and how to recognize it and how. To separate yourself from your loved one who is drinking or an addict and why we do that and a lot of it is the trauma bond to like, you're like, Oh they're hurting. So I'm gonna hurt or they're now they're happy. I'm happy. And it's it is very much walking on eggshells to when you have somebody like that.

Tanya: 4:28

Absolutely. Yeah. And that's a really good point that I think codependency really became part of the psychological vernacular when Look at me pulling out an S. A. T. I know, I like that. Look at that. I have not used that word in a Maybe ever, but it's nice. But I think it really did come to light with you know, substance abuse. That was really kind of a phenomenon that was starting to be recognized that partners and family members were really affected in this other way. And it's so funny when you, and it's funny, I mean, just strange, not really funny. But when you were mentioning that the Al Anon books and all that stuff, I do remember My mom did have some books about codependency because my dad was an alcoholic. And I think, I just remember always associating it with alcoholism and like, okay, that this person takes on too much because, you know, I could visually see like my father can't like wake up. So my mom has to go and make sure he's okay, that he won't, you know, I don't know, fall over or whatever, like almost like she has to take on his emotions and his role as like, you know, dad and then also be a mom and then also be a person and you know what, you know, it was just a lot. And I definitely would see that. I also think it's interesting when I got older I started to realize it's not just that because I think I really defined it only by that like if you're in a relationship or if you know, are in a family with that you might have some of those traits. But I think I just, I really got a visual when I was younger. It was just like, you know, like a married girl. Couple or like, you know partners that were together if one had substance abuse issues Like that was yeah, very like I think that was very much focused on for a while probably back in the 80s and 90s Yeah,

erin: 6:14

well, there's a lot of enmeshment too and I think that because when you're talking to us, you remember that book I'm okay. You're okay That was on our copy table, and I'm sure that, I've never read it, but I just remember, I mean, I'd skim through it as a, I mean, I still remember what the cover looked like and everything, but I know that had some stuff to do with codependency and, you know, which is interesting too, because that's probably opposite now what we, you know, it's like, Who cares if they're okay? You should, you know, they, you know, you should be okay whether they're not doing well or whether they're doing well. You know, so and that is something to, you know, when we have clients who have codependency issues, who are say they're struggling with codependency and their friendships or their relationships, it is separating you. You're trying to teach them to separate themselves from the other person. Not physically, but just emotionally. Have your own interest. Have your, be able to, you know. Experience different emotions, happy or sad, whether they are, or and not always having to take care of them or, you know, like using an example of if they're drunk or not able to wake up, their natural consequence would be that they get written up or something else happens. But a lot of times people codependent relationship, whether it's with substances or not, it's. You do tend to lose yourself and it can be very drastic or it

Tanya: 7:38

can be subtle. And that really makes sense that somebody would want to jump in there, especially like, you know, financially, if your partner, say like just in that instance, would get written up and possibly lose their job and that loss of income, you know, that it's like, well, that's hard for me not to, you know, it kind of becomes. into not just separating themselves emotionally, but also saying like financially, we might need to survive for that. So I might need to cover for some of those things. And that's why it can be kind of tricky. I also think that there are, you can grow up in this type of household and you can kind of see this as the model, right? Like that can be the origins of possibly somebody thinking like, okay, my relationships are very much I only care about other people's feelings. Like you're modeled after that. I also think there's other ways it can be modeled in, you know, dysfunctional families, which is pretty much like all families, like, right? So everybody, every family has a mode of dysfunction. Yeah. But I think if say, like your emotional needs are neglected, say you have emotionally distant caregivers personality disorders where your needs have to be put last just to be able to survive. I think Those things can definitely start to shape you to feel like my needs don't matter, my only need is as a caregiver. And I do want to point something out, which is very I think is interesting, but the, I have, I don't know if you've ever gotten this, but I've gotten clients who are themselves in our field. And they have been attracted to this field or other caregiving fields, like, you know, nursing, health care you know, all of those, you know, sorry, I can't think of any right now. Like, you know, all the, nursing, health care, nursing, health care, like, well, even animal care yeah, like animal care, like people that feel like, okay, I'm going to put it. And not to say that this is how you have to do the job, but if some people do have that pattern through their work, that would be a place that they would probably go to. Yeah, they obviously are caring but that they may be expressing that dysfunction through their work, right? You know, like I've had some clients that I have met I, Sometimes I feel like I struggled with that when I probably first started therapy as well. And I really had to separate that. I had great therapy and great supervision. So I was, you know, always, I was very open and honest about that. But it was really tough if you like grow up in your model to kind of feel like, you know, I was a, like the youngest, the fifth in just a very dysfunctional family. And I think Emotions were kind of a, like a luxury, you know, they weren't something that was, you know, it was, you know, being able to just have food and being able to not, you know, have police come over and stuff like that. Those were kind of, those were not daily things, but they were frequent. And so emotions were very much like I, I got the message and I don't know, very much. So I think probably the most out of all my siblings. to say, go internal and just care about other people. Just do that. That's how you get by because then they'll be nice to you. They'll care about you, even though it wasn't true. You know, and I think that's another measure of, you know, How people may interact and then they find a career based on that because I definitely think mine was somewhat guided towards that which is not a bad thing right if you can work that out and say I can separate that like if I were still in meshing that I think that would be an issue but I I've met therapists who have felt really bad because they're like I feel like I shouldn't be this way like why but it makes a lot of sense that you would be attracted to a career you

Both: 11:07

Like,

Tanya: 11:07

you know, like this or, you know, carrying fields where you can absolutely act that out because maybe you feel like you have no, like, self worth, you weren't given much to feel like you have, like, self worth. And just the needs of someone because of substance abuse, because of personality disorders, narcissism, complete family dysfunction, neglect, whatever. You just were like, okay, these things that I'm having and feeling are wrong and bad. Let me just make sure everyone else is okay. Because when I do that, I might get some interaction from people. I might get some positive responses. And I think that some people are really you know, I think that it's kind of interesting that can lead to that. And that's not, it's actually, it can be a really great thing. You really can, you know, kind of recognize that and then start guiding other people to realize that.

erin: 11:57

Well, it is kind of, it is interesting though, that people maybe who have experienced codependency or seen it in their family unit, choose it for their career path. Like, so they decide to go into the helping fields, whatever that might be, because Yeah, then they're able to navigate it in a healthier manner, maybe, so they understand, or they could even recognize it in other people. Okay, maybe you're in this unhealthy relationship. You're not putting yourself first, or even hobbies, or other interests, too. So how do you find yourself? And being a therapist could be a very great thing to be, If you've experienced this in the past and you've worked through it, and now you're able to recognize it in yourself and you can help recognize it in other people as well.

Tanya: 12:41

Yeah, I agree. It definitely can be a strength. And it can be with other, you know, nursing, police officers, you know, things like that where people are, you know, serving and maybe they see a situation and they kind of recognize the dynamics, you know, but I think we can like address it on the ground because this person is or person Persons are coming to us for therapy, right? And to recognize those dynamics. And I've had quite a few clients when I pointed this out to them and I recommended. You know, like Melody Beatty is a big author who wrote about codependent, codependent no more, the language of letting go kind of thing. Yeah. Like, it's like, it's a whole different world for them because they're like, Oh my God, the pattern, it's not the things that are going on and how I'm acting. It's the pattern of these things and how they're playing out and it really shifts their entire internal, Paradigm and it really is life altering. Yeah.

erin: 13:30

Well, well and also that book I've had quite a few clients read that the codependent no more. It's very Opening It really makes them feel seen and heard because it's like oh this makes sense this is what i've done or this is why i've done this or I'm, not alone in this so It's very interesting. I think there's a companion workbook too that goes with it Yeah, there probably is yeah, and but I have had a lot of clients who are reading it and we'll talk about it They're like, okay. Well, I don't really want to have all my Sessions about codependency, but I'm just really excited about what I'm Experiencing while reading this book and what I'm learning too. So it's a talking point

Tanya: 14:11

Yeah, for sure And it definitely is I think a thing that it can really shift Your life, like how you make friends, the partners you attract, the people you allow or don't allow in your life, because a big part of codependency, I think, is learning your boundaries, learning the things that you want in your life, learning the things that are acceptable or not acceptable in your life, and that you actually have power over that and how to be able to do it. Because I think You know, I think people maybe that are outside of this just see this as a weakness like I grew up with This idea, I don't know if it came from my household or just maybe society, like people talking about it in general, that codependent, like, Oh, if you're codependent, you're weak, you know, like you're this, you're that, but there's so much trauma behind it. There's so much thing, you know, like I, I didn't want to admit it about my own patterns because I felt like that's weak, you know, like I'm not weak, you know, I don't want to do that, but I had to kind of come to terms with saying, I know that I have put other people's needs ahead of mine. Constantly and just deleted myself over and over again because I don't know how else to interact with people.

erin: 15:19

Yeah. I have I've experienced that as well where I'm constantly trying to remind myself, Hey, this is what you worked for. This is, you know, like you are important. Don't go back to. Who that child or that teen who was suffering, who had those learned patterns of behavior, because that did, that really did navigate my friendships throughout school and throughout a lot of my adulthood too. And even how I interacted at work when I worked in brick and mortar jobs where it was very interesting too, like where I would sometimes navigate towards maybe. I don't want to say abusive relationships at work, but it was just kind of like, all right, probably not a health. Yeah, not very healthy. Not the healthiest choices all the time.

Tanya: 16:05

Yeah, I totally understand that. Yeah. Yeah, no I really do get that. And I think the fact that we do understand that is something that, like you said, it really can help us recognize this with other people where they may not be understanding. Like, why is this relationship, you know, never working out? Like, what's wrong with me? And I do this, I do that. But maybe there's not enough of you in there, or maybe there's also another thing in there. There's some, like, narcissistic kind of dynamics going on where, you know, in narcissism, and I'm being very general here because there's different types of narcissism, so I'm just it's just for brevity's sake, but I think, people who have narcissistic traits or the disorder itself tend to want people around them that can be more of a voice box towards them and can be like extensions of them. And they don't come out and they don't advertise for that. It's just the way they behave because everything revolves around them. It's not you know, narcissism isn't necessarily checking yourself in the mirror every single day and being like, Oh, like, I mean, it can be, but I'm saying like, you know, be like, Oh, I need to, you know, this is not just about looks, which is, I know we talked about that and misperceptions a while ago, but you know, I think that they can attract someone who Is like, oh, you have all these big needs. I can meet them and maybe you will see me. And they're like, you can meet my needs. And there's like a moth to a flame kind of. Yeah. You know, and I've definitely had those experiences in friendships, family, relationships relationships, all of the above. And I definitely, I see that as like a pattern with my clients too. Like they will. You know not understand why all of a sudden they feel like nobody sees me How can I do all these things for people and i'm completely invisible and it's really hard When you get it's hard for

erin: 17:46

them to notice. Wait a minute. I've been doing everything for the other people in my life or everything You know to make them shine or to make everything correct for them and i'm forgetting myself or i'm forgetting My own needs or who I am or forgetting my what my voice sounds like

Tanya: 18:03

Yeah, for sure. It's definitely like a deletion and it's not, you know, for people that are not understanding this or haven't experienced this, and it's totally understandable if you just haven't experienced it, I'm just saying like to imagine it, I think it involves understanding that you have, you do not have that internal check where I think, you know, people that are not, you know, that don't have this trait, they may just automatically check and see, am I good? Am I good? All my needs, you know, like, and it's subconscious. That's not there for them because for them to feel settled and safe, it's the person who they feel like, Oh my gosh they're the ones that, that they somehow determine that.

Both: 18:42

Yeah,

Tanya: 18:43

and that could, that's usually like a partner or a friend or something, you know, like somebody close to you.

erin: 18:48

Because all of their self esteem and their self worth is tied into this particular person. And that's also what happens when somebody is codependent or there is a codependent relationship.

Tanya: 18:59

Yeah, they can certainly like they look at, you know, another person as a definition of themselves sometimes if somebody is codependent in a relationship, it usually takes the other person having a dynamic that feeds into that, right? Or that is like you said, needs that, right? Like requires that. And so that's what keeps it going in a cycle. And it, because I think a lot of people, like, you know, we were talking about those toxic, like high school couples that kind of break up and come back together, break up back together, and, or, I don't know, adults. Relationships too. Yeah. You, yeah, you see

erin: 19:32

it. You see it a lot in anything. Yeah. Like yeah. High school or college or adult, you know, where it's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Or they'll, oh, they'll put those stupid statuses all the time. Broke up, came back. You know, it's like, yeah. It's like, or like a whole explanation up for good. Yeah.

Tanya: 19:47

And I think that's the thing that it's almost Like, on the outside it may look like, okay, you guys are not good for each other, but there's some dynamic that it feeds both of their needs, you know, and it really is in this deep way that, that informs their safety, informs their well being, their sense of self. Even in narcissism, because, you know, they're, deep down inside, they're very insecure. Yeah. And so they need to kind of say like, Oh, as long as this person continues to feed me in this way and justify me I'm good. Right? You know, and this person says, as long as they're good, I'm good. You know, kind of, that dynamic. So it can get really confusing, because it can look, and it's very frustrating to people on the outside, because, They don't they may not understand that dynamic, they may not see what's going on, or they just, you know, may not really understand it.

erin: 20:32

And also, I just wanted to say something. Not every relationship is A codependent and a narcissist or a codependent and addict it could be a codependent and codependent Yeah, like they both could be very codependent on each other that's really hard to make any forward movement with that. But there that does happen too It's very there's so much enmeshment with that. But that does happen that Is a relationship dynamic

Tanya: 20:59

For sure. I think that would probably need a very skilled couple's therapist to be able to kind of, you know, dis and mesh, whatever that's called, dis, disconnect and understand, and then like both people to individually understand, and then sometimes, and usually, that'll be like, they may not come back together, and I think that's something that they, you know, like to, I've had some couples like that, and you know, they are too scared to be like, nope, I'm not letting this person go, and so they just need to keep the dynamic going.

erin: 21:29

Yeah. Or it's really scary to try to find yourself, because what if I find myself and then they leave me? And that's also a fear too, because what if both of them have, abandonment issues, or their attachment style is, you know, grounded in that, and they found this person that they're coupled with, or friendship coupled with, or whatever it is, and then it's just fear based of like, what happens if we grow? Or you see this a lot in like the high school relationships or you know, someone's going to college. I'm gonna sabotage them so they don't go to college or I'm gonna try to figure out how I can Go to the same one or get a job nearby or like give up my dreams

Tanya: 22:10

to go. Yeah.

erin: 22:11

Excellent. Yeah, and you do see that a lot and it's so it's like how do you help them or navigate that before that? Big event changes course.

Tanya: 22:20

Yeah, and I do have to say in that my experience and this is just my experience where you know, there is someone younger, maybe just less experienced in relationships, if they this feeling like I can give up everything for this person, I'm doing this, what am I doing wrong? Because I'm doing everything right. And you try to tell them like, Hey, that actually isn't healthy. They tend to really, I mean, like they're going to push against you. You really have to work for it for them to understand that because this has been, this has informed their whole worldview, their whole lives, you know? And so it's also, you know, like you said, it's scary to change it. And it's also scary to, internally to be like, I'm a different, I may have a different worldview, right? You know, like inside. And that's that's a lot. That's a lot. So I think that's where we provide that good support Thanks and information to say, Hey, this is not easy. This is not something that's short term. This is something that's longterm. It's going to require a lot of bumps, ebbs and flows. And you know, a lot of things where it's not going to necessarily feel the best, but to know, you know, to continue to reorient them, to say, this is the goal, you know, this isn't where you're at. And these are the things that we maybe need to work on. And of course, I'm saying, if this is a client that continues to come, sometimes people just drop out because they don't want to, they don't, they're not ready, you know, and they may not want to do that. I definitely had a couple of those where it was like I realized they were like, it was getting too much and they just they couldn't. Yeah. And that happens a

erin: 23:45

lot with any topic with therapy, you know, like that's usually as therapists, we go, okay, well, therapy is going to get harder when you know, once, you know, like it's, it'll be, sometimes you feel like it's easy, then it gets really hard, then it gets difficult. And then you might not want to see us again, because it's really difficult. Cause we're talking about situations or topics that might be. scary and, you know, confronting somebody or talking about their codependency or relationship or friendships or interactions with family members, that might be the first time they're hearing about it. It might be really scary to change themselves or change the dynamics of the people around them and their worldview. And that could be, You know, it changes really scary and that could be like very scary for somebody like that. And so there could be a big dropout rate with therapy for some people.

Tanya: 24:43

For sure. Yeah, that's it's really true. I mean, yeah, like you said with any topic, but especially with this where it's so funny as you were talking about You know how scary it is to change your worldview. I was thinking of like the witness protection program. It's almost like you have to go and be like under a different identity. You can't necessarily be around the same people. And it's not that drastic, of course, you know, that's our job is to make the transition and to say, Hey, you got to keep, you know, keep on with this, keep on, you know, it's definitely more. Yeah. Therapeutic and, you know, we try to that's our goal, but it is almost like having to reorient your identity, you know, and that is, that's a,

erin: 25:21

yeah that's interesting you say that because that's just like with, you know, going back to how I mentioned addicts and alcoholics, you know, like a lot of times, like the tenants of AA or when people Leave rehab too. It's like, all right, you got to find a new group of people. You're gonna hang out with new group friends. But a lot of times they don't really talk about why. They just say, okay, because you're gonna go in the same habits. Not saying, you might get enmeshed in a codependency something again. And they don't really say that, but that's what happens a lot too. It's like, okay, well, We all have the same thoughts, wants and needs, you know, that group or whatever. So that's one of the reasons too, not only because you're gonna probably want to do the same things you're doing that might not be healthy, but because the same people are still doing the same things and still have the same behaviors and same way of thinking.

Tanya: 26:13

Yeah, and even the tenet of like not being in a relationship for a while or a relationship in the same group kind of there Or somebody that's in recovery as well is definitely a thing because like you said it's like you really want to you want to be Focused on yourself, you know these things that you weren't ever really able to do internally It's you have to sit with it and you have to it's uncomfortable. It's really uncomfortable, but I always tell people like it's going to feel not good. I can't guarantee that this is going to feel good, but are you going to like the results and feel a lot more like who you are internally and externally? Yes. Yeah. Continue to do this.

erin: 26:50

Yeah. like you see it like on a bumper sticker or something, but you know, the self care isn't selfish, but it really, you know, but it really, you know, it, it feels it, it feels like taking care of yourself or going to therapy, especially if you have codependency with somebody else, it's like, oh my gosh, this is so selfish. I'm being, So mean and so selfish that I'm taking this hour for myself each week or that then I'm writing in my journal or I'm Doing exercise or I'm trying to find a hobby or I'm doing whatever else it is That's not connected with this person or not helping this person or that's really selfish, but you're actually really helping yourself and Yeah showing up.

Tanya: 27:34

Yeah developing those things connecting with yourself to say. Oh You This feels relaxing. This feels good. Like, just connecting with your emotions is something you probably don't do too well. You know, like, you're not really used to that because ideally people that or children who become adults which they will sorry, children, I don't know what I said that children who grow up in families that are healthy to a degree, like I know we all kind of have like dysfunctions, right, but are healthy are developing these things through play, developing these things through healthy feedback. That parents are saying like, Oh, you look at that. You did that. Oh, you must be a poet. Oh, you must be this. You must be a writer. Oh, look at this. You know, like kind of giving them feedback and giving them that self esteem and then supporting that and then being able to engage with others with that and carry on in social skills. That's what these people were usually not really filled with. You know what I mean? They weren't given that connection in, in, in their self esteem and their self worth. So. You know, I'm sorry, I don't mean to say these people in a crass way, I just mean with people that are, that have this you know, and have these difficulties. But it really is something I think that, you know, it can be tough on the outside for people to understand this. And you know, I really, like I said, it really, a lot of people will come and they will say things like, like what I had thought about myself. Like I must be. I must be what the hell's wrong with me that this happened. And I try to point out, we will go back to their childhood, you know, and kind of see what happened or if there was like relationships that were really like pivotal monumental kind of milestone events and see if some of those things, you know, maybe contributed to that because we can kind of usually identify it. Unless, you know, the person has like a memory block or something like that. That's something else, but. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, it is, it's really, I think, an interesting concept because I think nowadays, at least from what I've seen on the Tik Tok, it seems like people do, I think are starting to see, Oh, this does come from something, you know, I know we've kind of in the past said, don't get your information from Tik Tok and we're still not advocating that at all, but I'm just saying, I feel like it's more of a, Yeah. People recognizing that it's not just people being like weak and just like a, you know, just a rug for somebody to lay down on somebody and there's something just totally wrong with that person. There's patterns, there's things that it develops from and instances.

erin: 29:59

Yeah. And I think a lot of times people, when they think of that somebody, oh, they're so codependent or something, they. They go back to like, you know, what you picture in like movies or the old shows with like, you know, the stereotypical Housewife or mother not really doing anything just like taking care of everybody without thinking of her own needs Yeah, but it is it's a little deeper. It's a little different than that and it can Expand not just we said not just with relationships. It can be How you, with your family, with your co workers, with your friends,

Tanya: 30:36

Yeah. And especially if you haven't recognized these things or if you're just not aware of these things, it will continue to affect you and all, if not most of your relationships, unless it's, you somehow interpreted it to feel like it can only be expressed, I don't know, in, in one form, but I don't usually see that. I don't know. Do you like, do you see that's only like, yeah. I mean, usually it affects most relationships. Yes.

erin: 31:01

I do want to say something else like it is okay To have a relationship where you're connected with the person, you know Whether friendship family work whatever and you want to do things with them and you share hobbies and you share interests. That's okay it's just the not being able to separate your own emotions for theirs or You bad's happening with them that you know, you have to fix it or that, you know, like whatever it's You It becomes The dynamics of codependency. Yeah. Yeah.

Tanya: 31:29

Yeah, that's what we're focusing on, is like, we're just saying, you know, if that is something that comes into play It's not it's not, you know, there's something that, you know, if you're coming to a therapist, you probably have an issue, and that's usually something that can be identified. But I didn't want, because I know

erin: 31:44

sometimes when people watch things on TikTok or anything, they're like, oh my god, that's me, but I don't want people to think like, oh wait, I'm having all that, but then forgetting that they might also be in a healthy relationship, or have a good friendship, where they actually can do their own things. And they're okay with that, but they also connect in a different way. Yeah,

Tanya: 32:03

yeah. This is if, you know, there's, you know, we're recognizing if it's an unhealthy dynamic. If you're feeling like something's not good enough, or you feel like you're not good enough, and you just always feel upset and drained, and, like, nobody sees you, and, you know, and even then, that could be something else, but that's maybe something occurring. a clue for us to dig in that direction. So we really wanted to just talk about this and show the diversity, I guess, of codependency and kind of flesh it out a little bit more because it's, it you know, as always, we're kind of keeping our eye on some misconceptions sometimes or things that maybe need to be expanded on. Right. Right. Right. We thought that this would be a good topic, so we hope you can also let us know if you have any questions, if you want to add anything, if you want to dispute something, if you want to, you know, say, hey, no, I see it from another point of view. Yeah. We are very open to that. Yeah. My codependent. It's not, we're not the end all be all.

erin: 32:58

If you want to say, my codependent relationship is working for me.

Tanya: 33:01

If

erin: 33:03

that's the case,

Both: 33:04

yeah.

Tanya: 33:05

Yeah, I mean, that one we might dispute a little bit or, you know, We're like, alright, prove it. I mean, I don't know if it's working for you and you don't want therapy and, I mean, who are we to say, right? Yeah, we can't

erin: 33:16

force you.

33:17

We're not trying to bring up problems for you, it's just that if this sounds familiar and you're looking for someone, you know, to, you know, to talk To get help from and it, you know, this is maybe taking over your life. Then that's why we bring this up, you know, yeah Feel free to write us. Whatever. We're fine well, we hope that you learn something from this or you know, want to dispute something with us about this whichever way it was just a good conversation for us to have. But let us know what you think. We always appreciate if you can leave us a review, that's very helpful. And Oh, Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapist. On Facebook, The Wicked Psychotherapist. Subscribe and follow and yeah, we

Both: 34:01

appreciate it. Yeah.

erin: 34:02

So, and don't forget, sorry, stay wicked. And keep your mind well. All right. Have a good week and we'll hear from you soon. Bye bye. Bye guys. Take care

34:11

We Wish You a Merry Christmas I'm going to be doing a lot of this. So, uh, I'll see you soon. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!