Navigating Career Transitions Across the Decades

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, hosts Tanya and Erin discuss the complexities of career transitions during different life stages, specifically focusing on the 20s, 30s, and 40s. 

They explore themes like generational differences, the impact of social media, the unique challenges and expectations faced by each age group, and the influences on mental health. 

Personal anecdotes and client experiences are shared to highlight common feelings of frustration, anxiety, and the quest for meaning in one's career. 

They also touch on the evolving job market, the rise of remote work, and the shifting dynamics of work-life balance. 

The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on their experiences and to follow the podcast for more insights on mental health and career development.

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Transcript

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You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard. Hey everyone, this is Tanya. Hi, this is Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist. Yeah, so today we are going to be talking about career transitions throughout the decades. Well not really throughout the decades, I guess just three decades. We'll be doing 20s, 30s, 40s, different types of career transitions that might be common themes that we've seen in therapy and how your mental health may be affected if you are. choosing to transition as well as I think some generational differences that we've definitely noted in other podcasts. I think that would be relevant to talk about here as well. I think one of the reasons why we started to talk about this was because we do have, we see some themes with different clients who are thinking about transitioning to different jobs, or maybe it's causing them a lot of stress or anxiety. And we had a couple of stories where, you know, not specific, just kind of general themes that we were seeing. So we decided this might be something to talk about. Let's talk about in your 20s. Let's start out at the young inside. Okay. So you just graduated high school a few years before Yeah, and maybe you know, you've graduated college or you know you're you've been working for a few years, What do you think are some kind of themes or things that people might run into when they're thinking of a career transition or changing gears in their 20s? What are some common things you see or you know, personally know? well. I'll go through like, you know, maybe some things that I've seen with clients and then I don't know if we'll probably talk personal Antidotes or something, but I think with what I've seen a lot because I do see a lot of people in their early 20s Early 30s a lot of people in their early 20s When they start their job, maybe they've just finished high school and high school. They just finished college. they might Really have these different expectations. So they're new into their position or new into their job and they might have Maybe they're even going for their internship or they're in a beginning position A lot of times people don't really want that and i'm hearing that a lot we're in the past it used to be like, okay. Well you start In this one position, then you might then, you know, apply to a higher position or get promoted or work your way up. I, what I'm seeing a lot is people start at one position, but want to instantly go to two or three levels higher than they might have the experience for. And I don't know if that, if you're seeing that too, but I'm seeing a lot of clients. They are feeling frustration because they feel as though they should be at a certain point in their career, even though they're just at the starting point. This might be their first real full time job, their first job in an office or first job in whatever career they might have gone to school for. And they're feeling frustration that they're not having the same responsibility as their boss or their boss's boss. Or pay. Yeah I definitely have seen that. There's definitely been a running theme of I, I think this, it, you know, this generation is different from our generation. And I'm not saying, I'm not like putting a value on that. I'm just saying it is very different. And I do think there are reasons for that. It may be that because of social media, because of us knowing so many things and being able to see intimately inside. other people's lives, I think there may be a running maybe paradigm that people are that, and social media might be placed out there of, you deserve to, to have this, you don't deserve to, you know, work yourself to the bone, and kind of this or that, which, I mean, that's not, of course, right? You know, that's not something, you don't deserve to be treated like crap, but there's also something to like making your bones, right? You know what I mean? Like, kind of. Being able to, to really, you know, and I think that's kind of something we believe and older generations believe. And I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but there is more of a rhetoric out there where people are getting really depressed and they're seeing other people who they maybe are or in some way making money because of, I don't know, other jobs or it seems like they are. And they feel like, Oh, well, they're happier and they're making more money than me, what am I doing wrong? So there's like a comparative value to it, I wonder. But I definitely am seeing that where. You know, I, some people will come in and say, I'm really, I don't know what's going on, but I just feel like this career is not for me. And some people I'll talk to, and they'll say, like, I really liked the job. I really liked the, but like, why am I here? And then we talk about the timeline and we're like, well, what's kind of typical? Like, where do you see yourself going? Have you gotten recognition for this? And for the most part, it's a yes. You know, sometimes if it's a no, that's a different story. Right. It's just almost like they're on this accelerated, you know, I have to be here. And I think there's a lot of almost career FOMO. Like, they're very fearful of missing out on things. They think they're not doing enough. And so they think like, I, you know, I should be making this by 23. And I, you know, I need to have gone and traveled to this many places, and I need to be this happy and have these types of photos and met my soulmate, and because they, I think that's reflected a lot, there's a lot more pressure in that with social media constantly being surrounded in it, and giving a false picture of it. Yeah. And this is the generation now we're talking, you know, now we're, if they're in their twenties, they're the ones that have fully grown up in social media and other things like that. And it's hard. And that's interesting too, that you say, like, you know, like that a lot of them have that FOMO because I do have that too. And that's one conversation I have with a lot of clients in this decade range in the twenties. And I'll ask like, You know, basically, what is your social media feed look like? Maybe you need to close that down a little bit because if you're in this comparison, you know, bubble of people that maybe you don't even know, or, maybe older, maybe indifferent, you know, may have had a lot of other different things in their life already that put them in a different. stage of life for finances or career. And then we'll talk about that and that then sometimes really helps because then it puts focus back on themselves, too. Instead of how does their experience compare to everybody else in the world? Because if we all did that, can really create a lot of anxiety. and really make you feel as though what you're doing isn't, doesn't matter. Yeah, I think that's good reframing and good like perspective taking in that because I think we as being pre social, like we, we can remember a time when there wasn't social media, right? We, you know, and the people that were famous were the ones that they were like special, right? You know, like Michael Jordan, like he's once in a generation, right? You know, and so I think we kind of have that, like we still can kind of definitely get sucked into it without a doubt. But. We have a little more grounding in the other world, you know, we can kind of see that and I think this generation maybe doesn't and that's hard to imagine. And so there may be some unrealistic expectations not really understanding that this is not something that you just get automatically, you know, or that if you're at this point in your life, you should have all this. And this means something's wrong with you. You have to apply it to the context of your industry, of what. environment you're in, if you like your job. And I do think some people will make career transitions based on this thinking, you know, maybe the grass is greener on the other side. And I think sometimes it is, sometimes it's not a fit. And then I think sometimes people may To another career thinking, well, it's going to be different. It's just this industry. And if you are on a timeline that's influenced by social media or other things that, that you've seen and you've heard, and you have this expectation. I think there might be some similar disappointment on that side, because it's not something I, you know, I definitely hold to. You know, and maybe this is just because we had to do it. You have to pay your dues, you know, to be able to say, Hey, I can do this. And then people have confidence that you can take on more and more. That to me sounds fair. I understand that perspective, but people that see, Oh, I woke up, you know, when I made all this money from doing this. That's a different story if you're seeing a lot of that on your timeline. You may feel like this is just how things happen and this means I'm a good person and I'm working hard. Yeah you know, and I'm not saying everybody literally thinks that way, but I think this may be kind of some of the subconscious building. Expectations of a career that some people are having. So yeah I am for sure seeing that trend. I'm also seeing, I don't know if you, I've seen this somewhat that there are some people that are having difficulty transitioning from, they went from being a student, you know, if they went to college and then they have to work 50 to 60 hours a week. And they're like, I'm like really sad. I don't enjoy my time, you know? And I think there's this difficulty in transitioning to like, Oh, I'm just doing work here. There's no like socializing built in kind of like they may have had in college. Right. seeing that and also because a lot of companies, I think to save money and since COVID and have gone either remote or hybrid. So a lot of people like where typically after high school and college, you. Get, you know, if you, especially if you move away, a lot of your friend group might be from work. So they're, a lot of them are missing out on that social aspect. So they're just feeling like, ah, it's work. Work is work. Work is boring. So they're not really having the friend pop in and be like, hey, you want to go get a coffee or want to walk around the building or let's go see what so and so is doing. They're just like, work is boring. Work is work. And I just sit in front of my computer. And so a lot of people are experienced in that way. I've noticed the ones who are not at a brick and mortar or at a different compact type of business or career where they're in person all the time. Yeah. And especially as an adult, it is harder to make friendships with all the time commitments you have. And just. Honestly, maybe the lack of energy, you know, I think it's just really tough to work 50 to 60 hours straight and also to then say, Oh, you know, now I have to build up a community around me, you know, that maybe they moved to a different city or maybe even if they haven't, they still can't really necessarily see people who may have moved away themselves or who are busy themselves. And maybe they never really learned how to create friendships because they were, you know, if you go from, what, preschool to high school and then college, like, all of these friendships are kind of all around you, set up, and so it's difficult to then go, oh, I'm going to put you in a city, and then 50 to 60 hours a week you're going to work, or, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. And say, okay, now go make friends. Yeah. You know, it's a little strange. It's kind of jarring. Yeah, it feels overwhelming just even saying that but it is difficult because now you're like, high school and elementary school, middle school, you are, you're with the same people, whether they have your same last name, you know, because sometimes they group you with like, okay, your homeroom is because your last name is, you know, this or that. And then you just kind of get to know the same people, or if you're in a sport, or if you have a hobby together, or something. So it's, Trying to figure out that balance. Yeah, there's more opportunities. Yeah. Yeah, and it's I mean, you could really just focus on a lot of, you could have that time, you know, for the most part. I know I'm speaking in generalizations, but yeah, it is pretty tough. And with those people that might be experiencing that it's, I do try to talk to them about, you know, well, this is a transition. Like when you went to college, you had to transition into, Oh, I have more responsibilities. I'm on my own. I have to go to my classes. No one's going to, you know, be looking over this. I have to see what I eat for food, you know? And I mean, probably teenagers have been doing that for a few years, I'm guessing, but maybe some haven't. And it's still, it can be, that can be a transition you have to get used to. And now this is a different transition and there's going to be more that are going to happen. And this is just one where you have to find, what is it that you want to establish? Do you want to establish a community? Are you wanting to look for, you know, a few good friends? Are you wanting to look at different You know, kind of, clubs to join or groups, or whatever it is that you could meet people if you're not at a job that's brick and mortar. And sometimes even brick and mortar jobs, it may not be, it may not be people that you may not want to socialize with them, or you just may not want them as friends, you may not click with them. Yeah, no, I mean, I've had quite a few brick and mortar jobs where I was like, all these people are so much older than me. Yeah. You know, like when you're younger and or I have absolutely nothing in common with them. I do not want to see them after afterward. Yeah, it's first I mean like it just may not click you just may not understand the same references It's just not really gonna work out and so that definitely can be difficult and those are considerations when you're Maybe moving jobs is, you know, kind of saying, okay, am I just, is this the transitional point where I'm, you know, kind of growing into my first job or is there something really going on with this job? Is this job treating me okay? Do I feel like I have a future here? And something that is, you know, I don't want to say more realistic based on what, you know, what a timeline is, but I think it does have to be taken into context with where you are in your career and what you know to be possible movement within it and what you want out of it. I do think it has to be, Contextual and a little more possibly grounded than just kind of what you're seeing or what you're hearing, you know, you really have to take that into consideration and know what you're in. I personally remember, you know, when I was in my twenties, it was tough because, you know, we were both in like social services, nonprofits, things like that. And they do not. pay you anything. And it's, I mean, it's really kind of, it's a job where people may look at as this is not a go getter job. This is not a job where, you know, you're really kind of trying to like climb up the ladder. You really are there if you're trying to help people. And you're, you know, really, honestly you're sacrificing quite a bit for the salary and for the time that you put in. It's more like value driven, I think. And, That, I remember feeling like with people who were, you know, that I had graduated with or friends and, you know, people that were not in that area, that realm, that I wasn't like working hard to get a bonus because there's no bonus. I was just working hard and, you know, there was no, there was nothing that was getting paid for, but that didn't make my job any less fun. meaningful or valuable. It just, you know, and it sometimes would it kind of felt that way because of how, you know, we look at how we're valued and how we get paid a lot. So it was kind of tough for me to reconcile that. And yeah, it was really hard. Yeah. I know. And my, you know, same with Tanya, I worked a lot of nonprofits. But, or I was in non profits for a while. But I remember, like, especially in my 20s, like, not really being aware how little I was getting paid, because everybody around me was getting paid so little. It wasn't like there was this huge, you know, like, difference. You know, at least all my peers. Until you start to really be aware of like, oh this salary does not match probably what other people, but by then I, I felt like I was kind of like in it for the long haul. You know, for some reason I just never, I never had the, I don't know something in me. I just never, I don't know, I want to say almost like a self worth. I never really realized that, oh, wait, I can quit. It's okay to change my job or change my career. I don't have to be stuck in this. And I don't think I realized that in my twenties and that's what like, if I, you know, like, and I think that's one thing I do that I'm seeing people now, and maybe even people were doing it then that weren't in nonprofit or weren't in the job I was in is that they will do the switching and stuff like that. And I remember. Hearing from, you know, like HR people after reading different articles, you know, that you should switch every three years or three to five years, even if it's in your same company or even, you know, or a different, completely different thing, just because it does look good for your resume. But yeah I didn't get that memo in my twenties. Yeah, I don't know that I think our generation was maybe just behind that, or maybe it was just starting kind of there, but it definitely is not something that is heavy in the non profit or human services world, because you're really You're looking at helping people and you really kind of think like, okay, this is what I'm doing. And if I am continuing to do this is what's helping me. Maybe I feel like I'm challenging myself in this way or that way. Like I definitely would change positions, but I hear what you're saying on the self worth. I think I felt like, well, I'm trying to help people. I can't make money off of this, you know, like that would be selfish. And that's something that kind of is, it is ingrained in that it is kind of pushed on you. It's kind of guilt driven. Yeah. Right. Oh, yeah, this is the mission and the vision and the mission and I think also being young and dumb I was thinking nonprofit meant no profit, but it doesn't and once you realize, you know, like it's you know, it's oh, okay. Well How do I you know, especially as a woman it's like, you know, how do I ask for a raise? And how do I do that? You know, that definitely was something that as I got older I started to realize that is needed and it's okay too. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that is, you know, with the twenties, that can be definitely a very defining point. And I think there's probably lower risk in the tw I mean, there is, you know, in the twenties than there is in the thirties and forties, which we're going to talk about. But and I think there's more exploration usually during your twenties. That's kind of what everyone else says. Oh, you explore, you know, you do You can mess up. It's okay. Yeah. That's one thing too. Would have been a little more risky I wish I was a little more risky in my 20s as far as like just trying different careers yeah, but I you know, it can be yeah, there's a lot of circumstances around. Yeah, like yeah It definitely can get you in. I mean you do need a steady paycheck. Yeah, it's like yeah, especially if you don't have the luxury of having Family or anyone being like, all right, if you can't make it, I'll pay your bills. It's you have to just yeah. Yeah, it's just So let's talk about the 30s let's okay 30s and talk about What some people may be experiencing in the 30s, you know in their 30 year decade with career change I certainly see clients and I hear about just personally people who have maybe they've been in their career for, you know, about a decade or so or around that time and they want a change or they're realizing, Oh, I've, I actually am not in the right field and I've kind of, you know, done what I can do here, and I just want to try something else. I do think historically, like in the 80s and 90s, people in their 30s would probably kind of think about, like, this is a more stable time. I'd have to, you know, you know, secure that position. I have to keep working. I have to keep trying for that higher position. And maybe it still is for some industries. I'm not really sure, but what I see is people who are getting very burnt out or they're just realizing they do not want this career if they're changing careers. And. This is to me kind of a bold decision. I think where people come in and they're not sure, and that would be like a point of what they want to discuss, right? I don't know if I, if this is a good idea because I'm not in my twenties, but I'm also not in my forties. So, you know, what can I do here? Am I really seeing this clearly? And so we would discuss some of those things around it. but I have definitely seen more clients. Changing in their changing careers in their 30s. I think for this generation probably than there was before. That's just a guess. Totally anecdotal. I don't know. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, I do have like, you know, I'm just trying to think of my clients at 30. Sometimes I so much changing full career, but also having a little bit more, like you, you mentioned, like maybe they're, they've been in their career or the job or wherever they're working. Or type a job for about 10 years or so by now and they might have a lot more confidence. That's what I'm seeing like instead of the you know, they're not the newbie in their position or their career and they're feeling a lot more confident and they feel as though they can apply internally for that manager position or director position or whatever it is like that they might have felt You Well, I keep getting passed up for it. Why don't, you know, now they might be like, you know what? I have that experience. I am a senior, I should be a senior staff member or something so I am seeing that a lot where there is more confidence in themselves and possible their careers at this age. I think so too. I think people are they have Some experience on their belt, right? And they're feeling like, well, maybe I understand myself a little bit better and how I work and as opposed to just coming out of college or, you know, whatever that may be transitioning into your twenties. This is a little bit more of an experience change, but it's also, you're a little bit older and some people may see that as an obstacle and other people may look around and just say, ah, I'm going to be, you know, 40 anyways, you know, or maybe go back to school and say, you know, four years are going to pass anyways, you know, let me go ahead and get that degree or, you know, whatever it is that they're thinking. I know I started exploring a lot, like I took a lot of classes in my 30s. I, after graduate school, I finished that in my 20s and I think it was in my late 20s. And then I, in my 30s, I kind of had a little bit of a, am I in the right field kind of mode? And a little, I had a lot of burnout at that point. And I went back to school. I tried a lot of different things. I mean, like from computer science. Which is not the right fit for me. To writing, to, I even took a couple of nursing classes. And I just I enjoyed it and I realized, oh, I think I just kind of missed being a student and I really do love learning, but I think this is, The right path for me. Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely was like ready to shift gears, but I also was like, I can still do some of these things that I enjoy. It doesn't have to be my career. That's interesting because in my thirties, my early thirties is when I went back to grad school. And I also switched my career at the time I ended up leaving one nonprofit to go to a different one, still stayed in nonprofit world, but a completely different tight. And Yeah, I also was having I don't know if it was like an existential crisis or what was happening But I just was like, you know I need to figure out like I need to actually just figure out what I want to do and I think that's when I was like I need to be a therapist and I need want to go back to school for this the shift of the job too was very different than what I had been working at and but still, you know in the It Social service field, but I think I needed that. I think I needed that shift and that change, even though it was scary, you know, at, you know, it's any change is scary, but I, Wanted to make a couple, you know, big changes and I think because I was at that age too is like I think I was starting to think of my other job Well, I don't really want it. I don't really want to see myself here forever. I don't want to see myself retiring here and then that's why I decided to go to the other one, but That's really, that's an interesting trajectory because yeah, there are people who are kind of more defining things. And like they may have like worked in places throughout their 20s and maybe it was in a similar industry or not. And then maybe they kind of are like, okay, I feel like I need to settle into something in my 30s. So that, that, yeah, definitely is a lot of people that can do that. So yeah, that's, and that, that can be, I would imagine scary, exciting, and Maybe it feels more secure, kind of feeling like, okay, I have a direction. Right. You know, and this feels good. Yeah. Yeah, I know for me it was okay, well, let me do some, and also it was nice to going back to school and having a different career because I wasn't just stuck with having friends from work because then, you know, met you and, you know, made, you know, had a life outside of work. So then, you know, it made my life feel a little more interesting, too, for myself. Like, expanded it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a cool, yeah, that's a good point. And also, you know, another thing that I, that we didn't bring up for the 20s, but also, you know, if you have a family or if you have a partner as well, that can change the direction, right? Because you may want to You may not have the time if you have kids, or you may not be able to, you know, if you have a partner, you may not be able to go back to school if you're kind of not able to swing that by yourself, if you don't have any outside support. Or, it might kind of be something to try and work out. Like that, I mean, that really could be 20s, 30s, 40s and I think things are kind of all over with people, you know, choosing to have a partner, or, you know, starting a family, I think there's really no, I don't think there's any really particular age nowadays. No, it's not. I mean, like when we think about like our parents age, as I know, it, it seemed like it was like the norm to get married or something by 21 and already have kids. And now, or even in, you know, it's like twenties, thirties, you know, a lot of people are not having children until they're in their forties. And that's like the, that's like the norm. Yeah, some people are choosing to kind of focus on their career and then maybe you know, with technology being the way it is, you know, maybe checking their fertility status and, you know, pre planning for that or just saying that's not for me or I will see when I get there, right? You know, whatever it is that, that their decision is. I actually just read something the other day and I cannot think of the source, but it did say that 30 percent of people age 35 and over are opting to not have children now. You know, which that's a large amount. That's greater than former generations. And again, I can't really, you know, I can't vouch for that because I don't know. I, it was a reputable source, but I cannot, I don't remember. I will see if I can get that source where it was, but that's, I think maybe people are. You know not as and in the article it said people are not as interested in having kids It's too expensive and they want to travel they want more freedom They don't want to be responsible for that a lot of people have anxiety about being responsible for another human being Yeah, but it's tough. I mean, yeah, it's even with animals It's hard, you know, because it's like you have to you know, you're responsible for the bills and everything, you know children and children animals and it's all that is very expensive. Yeah, for sure. It's a lot. It's a big decision, you know, and I think before in former generations, it was just kind of the expected thing, you know, I think people are able to say, maybe not. Yeah, and I think it's interesting too, because I know like my mom, she had my brother really young, because you know, he's 10 years older than me, but you know, young to me is like in 20s, but But she never put that expectation on me or my sister to Get married or have kids young and I don't know if it's because my mom may have you know Like maybe they that generation wishes there wasn't that expectation that you hurry up and find a husband Because I never had that push of up go get married because both my sister and I got married We both were about the same age like in our late 20s Yeah, so it, it may be by that point, maybe things were changing for parental, you know, like that was the expectation for them, but they didn't want that for their kids. Yeah, I I think that, this leads us into like the forties, you know, where this is probably something that we may see. I don't know, I don't see as much, but it's definitely there. People definitely change in their 40s, and I think with this generation going forward that are in their 20s and maybe 30s, I think that's probably going to shift into being more and more frequent. Yeah. Because former generations would, probably be like, okay, I'm in a, I'm in my career. I'm in it. It would be crazy. I'm going to retire in a couple of decades. I need to just solidify that. But now people are more educated more access to jobs and things like that. Yeah. I mean, I still have, I still hear like people thinking and planning their retirement with their jobs if they stay, I do have a lot of people who are like, well, what else can I do? What other streams of income can I do while I'm at this job or if I decide to leave this job? In my forties and which can be fun and rewarding and also help me plan my future. And you mentioned like, you know, maybe they're planning for vacations or doing other things. So I do see that a lot where maybe they, they've made that decision to either stay in their position or find little tiny side hustles almost. I'm seeing that a lot more in there. in the 40s where it's interesting because you would think that would be more of a 20s thing too. And I mean, I do see that with people in their 20s, but I've not too much. I, yeah, I think it's more kind of like in the 40s where they're starting to diversify and be like, okay, well, you know, retirement's coming up in a couple of decades, hopefully. Right. You know? And and I also think people may be starting to look for meaning in their jobs. They may start to, Is this really meaningful? Is this all that I want? And maybe they start to do side hustles to kind of, you know, say, okay, well, I know that I did want to travel, so I'm trying to add to that. Or I know that I do want this for my retirement so I can give to my grandkids, you know, like what kind of overall generative. Meaning is this, has this job been, has this career been for me? What can it offer in terms of the life that I have had? Yeah. And I realized 40s is not, it's not old, right? You know, I'm not saying like that's the end all be all, but they may start to, I feel like I'm seeing more people start to think about it in that era, in that decade. Yeah. It's interesting again, because it's all about me, but I noticed like in my 40s, I, you know, like that's when I shifted. Or 40 or something or 40s like when I did another shift decide to leave the nonprofit and then just be like, all right I'm gonna just do my practice full time now. Yeah, so that's a big that's a big shift Yeah, it's to leave like a company and then to do it out on your own strike out on your own Yeah, so then it was like, okay, so I need to define, you know, my identity again in my career yeah, so that, that is, I have become a hustler, you know, just kind of figure out what's, you know, you know, figure it out myself instead of relying on, you know, the company. So, yeah, and I, yeah, who knows, maybe that's what a lot of people do too, is trying to find themselves at 40, in their 40s. I also wonder I've noticed a lot more people, like when I was, I don't know if you, you felt this is just kind of a personal thought I had, but. When I was younger, I remember thinking like, I wish I could have a job that was from home where I don't have you know, like a manager or someone that's constantly checking on my work and like feeling like there weren't many options towards that. I feel like there are so many more nowadays, like people really can, like, I just think of the high social anxiety I had growing up and being like, you just got to get over it. Like I couldn't, there, there weren't as many options available for me. Being at home for being able to say, okay, I don't necessarily have to interact with people constantly where my nervous system is continually jarred. Yeah. And I just have to like do that and be fried after work. Yeah. Instead, it's actually, you know, just because of technology and advancements, it's. It's kind of nice and like the possibilities are great. I do think sometimes people can tip to the other side though, you know, and they can say they maybe have a tough time then working with people because maybe they've only worked at home and they've never worked with like a team of people. Yeah. So then they develop like a social anxiety because it's like, oh, wait a minute, how do I interact? What are the cues? You know, you know, it's yeah, so I have definitely seen that and for that I when I think of it I am glad that I kind of did not have those options and people like me Kind of had to just go out there and do it even though it was Bad and it was hard and it sucked, you know but just having to do that gives you a little bit of grit and it gives you an understanding of Okay. I, you know, I did do this. I can kind of do anything. This is nothing, you know, and I think that maybe assuredness and that confidence in that area is not. They're for someone who is able to just go into you know, something where maybe they, they didn't have to interact in that. And I'm not saying if that's a good or a bad thing. I'm just saying from my perspective, I'm glad that I actually had that. Yeah. It's nice to just recognize. You just made me think of one point that is kind of nice about jobs and careers and working, like you mentioned, working in person, is you get this opportunity to work with people Where else do you get to be around and work with and possibly be friends with multiple generations? It's, you know, you don't have it in, you know, your education life, you know, you don't usually interact with people that are two generations below or above you It is kind of neat to have that opportunity and to learn from each other and realize like, oh wait Maybe we have the same sense of humor, same work ethic. So that, that's kind of fun. And that's great. Kind of. Yeah. It expands your social awareness and that's experiencing, I think, more aspects to life. I do think there is a bit of, it can be a bit concerning if you do have social anxiety and you kind of just stay, you your entire career as like, you know, not necessarily having to interact with a team or parts where you haven't had to challenge that because it's kind of like that eliminates that from you feeling like you can ever really do that. Right. Or really knowing how to do that and some of those skills and understandings that you do gain in person. I'm not trying to, you know, if there's someone out there who's just, you know, they prefer that and they're able to. They're happy and they get out there and they socialize and maybe that's just kind of They feel good about that and that's it's just a comfort thing for their you know They have to be able to work from home and that's cool. Yeah, I'm just saying it that's just for my own Perspective I think of someone who had severe social anxiety. I am kind of glad that I was not this was not available Yeah, I think it Yeah, I wonder What my twenties and thirties would have looked like if I just worked from home. I don't know. It's probably. Yeah. It definitely wouldn't have been as expansive. I would have been really sad even though there were things that I was like, Oh, there were some bad experiences. I'll take those. I feel it. Yeah. Having experienced anything. Yeah. I feel like I probably would have been in a depressive. Yeah, I probably would have been really depressed because, you know, because especially back then, there, we, if we worked from home, yes, there was computers, but there wouldn't have been video, so it would have been just working on a computer by myself and not having any human interaction. It would have been like really depressing. That can be really tough. Yeah. But yeah, I mean we are curious about what your experience is. I know we, we like to also stay, or state our own and Talk about our own experiences and just what we see but let us know if there's anything you want to comment on any decade or just have any thoughts, anything to add. Yeah. But we hope you like this discussing career transitions, because it is something we do see, it is something relevant, and hopefully it can, you you know, just help you out to know that it's not something that's so, so different and it can be navigated. Yeah. You're not alone. Yeah. So, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, at Wicked Psychotherapist. On Facebook we are The Wicked Psychotherapist. Subscribe, follow, leave us a review, all these helps. Yep. And don't forget stay wicked and keep your mind. Well, all right. Well, have a good week and we'll talk to you soon Bye. Bye. Bye guys We Wish You a Merry Christmas