ADHD in Focus: Differences and Commonalities in Boys, Girls, and Adults

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, hosts Tanya and Erin delve into the topic of ADHD, highlighting its different manifestations in boys and girls, the common symptoms, and the impact it can have on individuals' lives. 

They discuss the importance of recognizing these symptoms early, explore whether these behaviors are significant enough to require a diagnosis, and suggest various coping strategies. 

The episode also touches on the potential for misdiagnosis, comorbidity with other disorders, and the role of mental health professionals in helping individuals manage ADHD effectively. 

The hosts emphasize understanding and addressing the needs of both children and adults who are affected by ADHD.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard. Hi y'all, this is Tanya. And this is Erin. And this is the Wicked Psychotherapists. Welcome.

tanya: 0:36

today we're going to be tackling the subject of ADHD, how it shows up in boys and how it shows up in girls and how it can show up in both boys and girls and what to kind of look for and how there may be some differences, but also you know, what you can do. What is, you know, if it's problematic or not, and just taking a look at everything around that. So we wanted to discuss this because it certainly, I think by now we're well aware that, you know, ADHD is a diagnosis, right? And that some people have that. I do want to kind of, I guess, maybe just dispel some things and just maybe streamline some information because I think a lot of stuff is out there. But I think, What we want to try and focus on is, you know, the different types of ADHD, the symptoms, how this may show up differently and if, you know, a course of treatment in terms of, you know, what can you do, what are some things from a mental health perspective. So the first things I do want to just kind of, you know, talk about are that they're clinically, there's three different types of ADHD the inattentive type, the hyperactive type, and then the combination, which would be, you know, both hyperactive and inattention. So just in that, you can kind of see that different symptoms all along that spectrum could show up with, you know, not inattention versus like, you know, not being able to sit still and process. But let's talk about what are the symptoms. When does this become a concern? You know, like if somebody, I know you don't work with children, but say that, you know, somebody comes to you and they're saying, I think I have ADHD. What are some things that you might explore or discuss with them?

Erin: 2:25

Well, I think you said like, when does it come, when it becomes a problem? So is this affecting their life? Why are they addressing this to me now? What is making them start thinking about it? What has there been? Something that happened at work, something at home that they noticed has changed or other people in their life are noticing you keep forgetting something or you're missing deadlines or you're forgetful, or did they see something on social media that all of a sudden they're like, well, I feel like I might have that. So, so that we might explore that first. And if it is something that maybe they're noticing is affecting their quality of life, Then we'll start talking about what the next steps are and that might be getting tested or something

tanya: 3:11

yeah, and it's you know, I think that is a good point to kind of You know, discuss first is this a problem? Is this like, you're not showing up to work on time? You're not able to meet deadlines. Are there other things that are coming in? You know, are you, did you just buy a new house? Did you just have a baby, right? You know, is there a new baby in the house that can cause definitely from your baseline, you know, maybe you know, take away attention or cause you to feel like you can't focus. And so those are. Those are definitely things that you'd want to consider, or has it always kind of been hard to organize? Have you kind of just gotten by you know, on, on luck or by the skin of your teeth to, to organize things or meet deadlines? Right. And is this just becoming exhausting trying

Erin: 3:52

to keep up? that's an awesome point. Because. What if you never were taught those skills of organization or time management? Because sometimes that is something that people are taught or shown. And now as an adult, you're just like, Oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm not able to keep up. I have no work. I'm not organized. I don't know how to do different tasks. I can't do more than one thing at a time. But what if you were never shown or never taught those skills? So that, that could be something too. Is it learned? Is it, or is it something that is a, Could be a disorder something.

tanya: 4:26

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's not you know, I think some people just You know kind of structure their lives based on what they grew up in if you grow up in chaos or just kind of saying oh bull, you know, I Will pay the bill when it comes back at me and it said like it's overdue by three months and things are about to get Shut off and that's when I handle it kind of thing and I'm not saying that's ADHD but Is that something that was modeled to you and you just feel like, well, that's the way you pay the bills, you know, kind of thing. And I personally relate to that. When I was, you know, growing up, my mom was always, you know, she was a single mom and she did not, She couldn't pay the bills. So I just always thought it was like, like survival was how you get by. I didn't realize even having like a nest egg or having security was even an option. So that's kind of how I live my life. And I mean, I also was in very low paying jobs. Jobs, and I was by myself. So I wasn't able to save anything But it was like that was kind of the norm for me, you know But I don't that had nothing to do with me Not being able to focus or organize or anything like that. Like when I look back on some of those factors Well, and that's

Erin: 5:38

also too it is different because it was like you said your mom was a single mom and it was Survival. So it might have seemed scattered and lot of things might have been chaos, but depending on what was happening with her or at home, too, trying to scramble, trying to get those, keep the electricity on, or get food on the table. It just might have been, how do I keep these girls? alive and thriving.

tanya: 6:01

Yeah it very much was, and that became kind of like a model of like, oh, this is how life is, but then I started to realize that this isn't really you know, me, this is, this doesn't feel good. I don't like this. And when I started to be able to actually make some money, you know, I was like, Oh, I should structure this a little differently. But it's, yeah. And that's kind of, those are things to explore. I think that would be something to take in, you know, with the bio psychosocial and to, you know, what was your upbringing like, where, you know, what were you modeled those types of things because This very well could just be a pattern repeating itself. Yeah.

Erin: 6:34

Or also what if, let's say they are coming into session and they're saying they're having these, the difficulty concentration, difficulty at work, you know, missing deadlines, getting in trouble, getting written up or at home is a mess or missing bills, you know, whatever else then we might discover like with a biopsychosocial, what else has been going on? Do they have any history of anxiety history of depression drug dependence, anything like that, or an illness, or recent trauma might have happened. Is there a death in the family? Is there something else happening? Divorce, you mentioned buying a new house, like happy things can also cause a lot of stress and Anxiety in people as well.

tanya: 7:14

Yeah, for sure. It's, you know, and I think it kind of comes down to you know, when we're growing up the differences that may show as, you know, a boy versus a girl and what's kind of considered normal for a boy versus a girl. You know, maybe it's kind of being looked at now, but there's still a difference in how people are, kids are being diagnosed, you know, or kids are, it's recognized that there is maybe an issue. And you know, in saying that, you know, with females, a lot of times, ADHD can show up this is not limited, but it can show up with low self esteem, anxiety, academic underachievement, inattentiveness, needing extra help with homework, problems with executive functioning, trouble listening. These things can definitely show up. It can also show up in, in the way that, you know, the other side with boys and the chattiness, the talking excessively, interrupting others, impulsivity, overactive or aggressive behavior But I think this is the study that we're looking at, it's from, or I'm sorry, the article is from Very Well Health it talks about just kind of like things that go under the radar, you know, and, you know, symptoms which, you know, people may take low self esteem, anxiety, academic underachievement as like maybe a depression or maybe something's going on with a girl at home as opposed to it may be an attention. An attentional deficit, you know, and so, I think just being able to look at that, but not saying it's exclusive to that is really important because there certainly are, you know, girls that may show up and be very chatty, have, you know, kind of be maybe aggressive or, you know, impulsive, and there's certainly boys that may have that an attentiveness that. You know, low self esteem, anxiety, you know, I think it's a crossover, but I think these are the points they just think have been overlooked a lot within, you know, females and males, and that's kind of the crux of what we want to talk about in terms of symptoms, yeah. And so, you know, and it even says, you know, that females may be kind of more prone to like daydreaming, kind of the more like passive, you know, in a classroom of, you know, say there's 30 kids or 25, 30 kids. I don't even know what standard anymore. But that may go unnoticed, right? Because that's not necessarily a problem student. You know, so just in general, I think it's not even just limited to ADHD, that may just not notice that something's going on, maybe something's going on at home, maybe there's other stuff going on, other, you know, maybe learning disorders, whatever that may kind of pop in there. And. Again, with males, if they're kind of, you know, sometimes if they're being overly aggressive or think, you know, there could be something going on at home, too, that may not point to ADHD. These are just things, you know, that I think they were just specifically pointing out to just say, hey, this may be missed, but there could also be some sort of problem. So. If you work with kids as a mental health professional or, you know, as a teacher recognizing this and saying, Hey, we don't really know where this is coming from, but this is worth exploring, I think is the biggest thing.

Erin: 10:07

And also it's nice too, like Tanya referenced this article and I'll try to post this article on social media too, just because it is good. So you can see, or just even take that little compare and contrast. You know, like the males, boys, girls, but they're, it's good to look at it too because so often I think people are so conditioned just to almost look at the boys when they are diagnosed and or the teachers suggest to the parents to get them diagnosed or looked at where with the girls in the past, it's probably not as acknowledged in the classroom or other places for the diagnosis.

tanya: 10:44

Yeah, maybe, it may be missed, you know, or it may be misconstrued, you know, as something else or just not mentioned at all, or, you know, the, maybe the boy could be labeled as the bad kid, right? What the article also goes on to say is that there's also, you know, if this is not diagnosed at a young age, the reason why we're kind of talking about this, when this kind of goes unnoticed or, you know, if it's misconstrued in some way, there's a risk of developing comorbid disorders like anxiety or depression sleep disorders, eating disorders. Substance use disorders, you know, things like that later on because these things are going undiagnosed and you're being labeled as like, Oh, this is, you know, something in your character as opposed to this is something you could get help with. And then it develops into another disorder because of that and the way you start to perceive yourself and the way others will then start to see you.

Erin: 11:35

Yeah. You're going through your whole school life as. The kid who won't stop talking or the trouble kid or the dumb kid instead of Let's try to figure out what's going on and help this person.

tanya: 11:48

Yeah, and I mean there's limitations here, right because It's, you know, a, one teacher or one teacher in like a, say like a, you know, aid, a teacher's aid or paraprofessional, whatever they're termed around you, that's maybe, you can't necessarily give individualized care, right, you know, but maybe saying if you are noticing it, you know, as a teacher, And hopefully maybe parents or caregivers are also noticing that to be able to get a referral to a child therapist. or to be able to, see if there is a diagnosis and to be able to see, okay, are there other things we can, you know, maybe try to work on.

Erin: 12:23

And

tanya: 12:23

I'm curious, once it gets to that point, once it is recognized, because that's the first thing is like the recognition that there is something going on. And this is just. You know, with kids. Right. But also with adults that maybe comes, you know, they come to you later, maybe they've had all these things showing up. You know, they have a comorbid disorder or it's coming out in a different way. Right. You know, so it really can be, I think Different courses of treatment and understanding different coping skills, if you do catch that early to explore and to say, okay, now how could we maybe shift the environment around? How can we introduce some coping skills, some, you know, ways of understanding this psychoeducation, For the caregivers, for the patients? for the teachers and for the child to understand that, you know what, hey, maybe I don't understand, you know, or I have a tough time understanding if I just sit here, but I'm allowed to have, you know, five minutes break every hour, which could be addressed on an IEP, individualized education plan, something like that. Those things can be tough to get and tough without, you know, maybe a diagnosis. But this is why I think you kind of want to, you know, try to pay attention to that. I think more schools are becoming aware that there are kind of needs, different needs for learning. And I don't think it's as strict as, I don't know if this was just me, but growing up, it was like everybody in the classroom had to behave a certain way. And if not, you were bad or you were misbehaving. Like it was very black and white, you know? Yeah. But I think there's a little more room now, a little more understanding for that, whether you have. a plan or not, you know, to kind of say, Oh, that kid just might need to get the wiggles out kind of thing, you know, and it's more accepted. a lot better and closer to kids of, you know, the nature of children that children are not just. robotic, and I kind of wonder how we all did that. People that, you know, went to that type of schooling growing up, I kind of wonder, you know, it was really tough to, Yeah. to stay in that kind of box. Yeah. You know, sit and be quiet and listen. Yeah,

Erin: 14:19

I remember, I was always the kid who was getting in trouble. I was always, Like, look, I told Tanya earlier when we were looking at this list, I was like, holy crap, I like, check every single one of these boxes for both the male and the female for, cause I was like chatty Cathy, I would not shut up in class, like, from probably first grade on, forever, and I was always getting in trouble, I was always the person having to point my finger to the announcement, and, You know, at the wall, that's how old I am, or sit in the hallway for talking or moving, or I'd have to take like a thousand bathroom breaks. It seems like throughout the day just to leave, because I felt like I was going to go insane, just sit in there. And I don't know if it was just that I was bored or what, but I definitely would have loved to have the classroom where you get to experience a little bit more freedom, which, you know. Kind of like step, you know, it's okay if you step away. Sit in the beanbag in the back of the room. Do this, you know, because that's Like, I see that now in some of the classrooms, which is kind of, kind of nice, kind of meeting the child where they are.

tanya: 15:23

Right, yeah. I totally agree. I kind of, I look at some of these classrooms and kind of just am like, wow, What a great way of approaching education and like, where was this, you know, but I mean, you know, when you know better, you do better. Right. You know, and I guess we've, we just were kind of before that.

Erin: 15:39

Yeah.

tanya: 15:39

But I mean, personally for me, it, it, you know, even for me, like I, I had, I made sure to pay attention, but it was all anxiety driven, you know what I mean, to do that. So it was like a lot of expenditure, but it probably would have been, yeah. Better, it would have been better for any kid for that, right? Yeah. But especially if, you know, you were being labeled as like, you're just a chatterbox or you're a bad kid or you don't listen, right, when it was really just you being a kid. But yeah, well,

Erin: 16:05

elementary school, I was in Catholic school, so that was even more noticeable that I wouldn't be quiet. The nuns didn't appreciate it, but yeah, it was just, that was very noticeable too. It was just like, but it wasn't like told like, Oh, she's hyperactive. It was just, you know, which maybe I wasn't, but I know I just like to talk. I was just chit chatty, you know, just. Didn't want to stay still either. I remember physically getting up to, like, I had no regard for the teacher. I would just, like, get up and go chit chat to my friend that was just, like, a few desks away and just always be like, McManus! Get back to your seat. But, so,

tanya: 16:42

yeah. I just had such fear. I had such fear of being like called out and like people looking at me that I would abide by it so much, but it was not. I mean, it obviously wasn't healthy. Yeah.

Erin: 16:52

No, I mean, the nuns were scary. I mean, I remember like, you know, especially my first grade teacher, I don't know what it was, I just like to talk. Maybe that's why I'm in the field I am in. I guess, you know, like,

tanya: 17:03

Yeah, that's, I mean, you know, it's, it fits, you know, so it's, there's nothing wrong with wanting to talk at all. It's, you know, I think it's, again, that was just that time. Yeah. But, I mean, being social is very healthy. You know, so it's not anything, you know, at all wrong. i'm kind of curious I would you know for people listening to this, what your experience was, you know, of generation, you know, generational maybe not even diagnosis, just how was not listening to rules, were they, you know, very streamlined? Was it very black and white? Was it expected that you just behave this way or else you're a bad kid? You know, and I think depending on The area where you're at, you know, as well as the generation that you're in, that's definitely could change.

Erin: 17:45

That's interesting too. Like, so where you grew up, like physically where you are, I was in Indiana cause my dad was stationed there and I'm sure that, that was where it was kind of strict where as an elementary, And then I finished elementary and we went back, we moved back to Rhode Island. And then the rest of my schooling was in Rhode Island, but. Yeah I mean, but I was always in trouble, but I feel like I really got in trouble in elementary, like in Catholic school.

tanya: 18:09

Yeah, and I mean, that kind of, you know, that, that thing gives you a label, or a feeling of like, oh I'm bad, or maybe you associate talking, Too much with like, Oh, that makes me a bad kid. You know, that kind of takes away some of your, maybe your desire to just kind of be social, right? You know, and it doesn't sound like it did, right? You know, it doesn't sound like it kind of was like, Oh, I'm I can't, you know, do this. It may be just kind of put in place some, you know, kind of stopping points to say, okay, I need to stop and I need to listen kind of thing. But, yeah. It's certainly, if somebody's made to feel really bad about that, it can take away these natural, you know, this, like, you know, kind of ability to just kind of speak freely without anxiety and you know, kind of these types of things. But also, you have to balance the fact that, You know, you're a teacher, you're trying to teach things, you have to kind of streamline that for a lot of students.

Erin: 18:59

Yeah, it is. It's something, now that I'm an adult and I have kids, I do have more respect for that career and, you know, being a teacher, having like, 35 kids or whatever it is in a classroom, 18, I same as you, I don't know exact number of what the kids are, but it's a lot and if you have like one or two that are just like chit chatting or making paper airplanes or whatever the heck they're doing, it's probably so annoying and just really hard not to yell at them or just have them sit in the hallway for the whole day, you know, it's just probably really. Difficult.

tanya: 19:34

Well, it's interrupting and it's also they're not gonna, they're gonna fall behind. And so you kind of, it's like you, you have to keep this group kind of on the same pace, you know? And so that's, you know, it's understandable that these things are, you know, or they were the way that they were. It is a lot harder to try and cater to individual needs, and it's not because teachers don't care, it's not because they're not working hard, it's because, you know, that's the reality of it, you know, and but this is kind of where I think mental health comes in where, you know, then it could, you know, you could find a therapist and kind of see, okay, are there different strategies you could work with that the parent would have to be with. involved or the caregiver. And, you know, ideally the teacher as well, but with some limitations because they, you know, like we talked about but, you know, to a degree, there are things that you can do to try and say, okay, how can we work with this? At what point is it, you know, that the kid maybe is needing to kind of meet, you know, Meet these expectations versus we need to meet, you know, or allow this space for this kid, you know, and kind of taking that individually I think is our part.

Erin: 20:36

Yeah. And you mentioned too, like how have I experienced with clients, because I think I've shared before, I only see women. So I'm actually just seeing the girl perspective with the ADHD or ADD and I only see adults. So I typically see people like 20 and above. It's just by, by stance, just because I say I see adults and it tends to be around that age range. I have had quite a few clients who have come to me. Either recently diagnosed with ADD or ADHD or Really concerned and seeking a diagnosis So it's been interesting when in fact they do all the testing and they find out they do have it or they don't have it and what the responses are and how the change because we'll work together to try to you know, figure out different coping skills and strategies and to work to try to help them to be more organized and have more time management and just to figure out if it is anxiety, how to cope with that as well. But those that have struggled their entire life and

tanya: 21:40

have had

Erin: 21:40

the diagnosis given, it's really interesting to see the shift of personality and it's almost like, whew, okay, this all makes sense. But then also I've noticed some people who have experienced almost like a sense of mourning and sadness and grief or anger because Oh, this is all that I missed out on because I was not diagnosed early on. Oh, I wonder what could have been in this and that. I wonder how I would have done on this and that test in high school. I wonder what my GPA would have been in college if I would have been diagnosed early. So it's, My job to help them with that great, you know going through that loss and that time but also okay Well now we have it. We have the diagnosis now, what can we do to help whatever your current goals and future goals are and If it's to be a better employee or, you know, whatever else it is, like, how can this new diagnosis help you with that? What can we do to help you gain the skills and just, you know, figure that out? Because it is like a very, it's a big thing in people's life when they find out, you know, if it's something that they've been seeking and searching. Right. Thank you.

tanya: 22:56

Yeah, for sure. It and that is true. I mean, it, there is kind of a, that's a good point, you know, that there might be a grief and not to say that, you know, oh, well, I could have been, you know, some people misconstrue that and say, oh, well, then they would have just had more excuses. It's not an excuse. They would have had more understanding and possibly support if they had that. And that's not at all, you know, I do have people come to me and say, Oh, well, that's my ADHD, so I can't do anything about that. And that's something I would definitely challenge when people say that. And I have had, you know, people say something kind of close to that, like, Oh, well, that's just, well, that's because I have ADHD and I will stop them. And I'm, I don't know if you've had a similar experience and say that does not mean that you can't try particular things. That doesn't mean that you have to rest in not being able to be good at something or try something because then you're limiting yourself. You are limiting yourself in the diagnosis.

Erin: 23:52

I've had the, Oh, well, that's just my ADHD deep brain. That's just, you know, it's like, wow, that's really great that you're able to separate it. Yeah. I'm

tanya: 24:01

not a fan of

Erin: 24:01

that. I'm not a fan of that. Like, I don't understand. And while they're saying it, I'm just thinking, like, you can't do that. You can't just say, like, okay, well, that's part of my ADHD brain. Or that's my anxiety part of my brain. Or that's this, you know, it's like, that's not how it works.

tanya: 24:15

Yeah it's very and I really, and this is just a pet peeve I do not like how people say, oh, I'm so ADHD, I just do this, and it's something where it's like, you didn't say you have ADHD, you actually just told me you just are disorganized this morning, that is not ADHD. Yeah. Do not Do not say that, you know, and I know I've said this in other episodes, but it really is just the numbing of language and of, you know, diagnoses and it becoming kind of just like everybody has it is it. Not okay, because A, there are people that genuinely they suffer from these things and they have been labeled as, or they think they're stupid, or they think they're bad, or they think they're just not a good person, or they think there's something wrong with them, you know, and they can't quite put a finger on it, and to just say because you're a little bit disorganized I, you know, that's my ADHD brain or, you know, whatever it is. it drives me nuts. I don't like it.

Erin: 25:10

Or some people who like, maybe they're having difficulty cleaning or organizing and it's like, oh, well, it's. Well, it's because I have ADHD. I saw this on TikTok or on Instagram or wherever they're getting in their social media and maybe it's just overwhelming because maybe something else is happening. A lot of people who don't have ADD or ADHD get distracted while they're cleaning or organizing. It's like some people don't know to chunk things or to break things up in parts. They, you know, some people like, I know I get overwhelmed and I have the skills. Like when I'm looking at my whole house, I'm like, Oh my God, what am I supposed to start with? And I'm like, Oh, wait a minute. Oh yeah. Let me just start with one part of one room or let me just do the dusting of everything and then I'll go do something else or then, or I'll gather everything and put everything away. Then I'll do something else. But a lot of times people make it very big instead of chunking it down. into smaller pockets.

tanya: 26:06

And that can be, like you said, that can be a learned skill. That can be, you know, how you were modeled cleaning. That can be, you know, how you were modeled not cleaning, right? Like you just don't really know. It may or it may have nothing to do with ADHD. You know, it may just be anxiety. It may just be, you know, I've known people, and this is just my personal life, that they will say things like that. And I'm sorry to say I am very, I get annoyed because I'm just like it's not like you don't suffer from that just because you just are not liking organizing today, you know, like, don't say that, you know, like, I, I just, it really bothers me because, you know, I am someone who does, like, I, I have had a lot of things, you know, with not ADHD, but with anxiety and when people just say when they just get a little flutter, they're a little nervous to do something, You know, oh, well, that's my anxiety kind of thing and that's my, you know, this and that and they misuse that word. It is frustrating to me because it's like your life is not turned upside down on this. You haven't missed out on these

Erin: 27:07

things. And it feels disrespectful too for those of us that have anxiety or those of us who, you know, we work in this field and to hear people just say, oh, well, that's my ADHD brain. Oh, I'm feeling so ADHD today. It's like, yeah, it's like, are you, I

tanya: 27:24

know, like, it's become part of the, like, colloquial talk, you know, people just say that I get it, but I just think it's become so ingrained in us to do that or OCD, I'm OCD because I like to have my pen straight, you know, and again, I'm not saying that you can't have this diagnosis and have these things and be frustrated by this,

Erin: 27:43

right. But,

tanya: 27:44

you know, just, I think We need to distinguish this a little bit more and maybe just say like, maybe I just, I like my pens to be this way and it's kind of, you know, my husband gets kind of annoyed by that. Right. Yeah. You know, like, well, it doesn't mean you're OCD.

Erin: 27:57

Well, and also, I know we talk a lot too about anxiety and other things too, but a lot of times with different forms of anxiety, different, whatever it is that you're suffering from. You might want to have everything in its place, because it makes you feel a little safer and a little calmer.

tanya: 28:13

Yeah, it might. And I mean, it's, it really is about, you know, I think, saying the sum total of your life, is this affecting, you know, my life in a way where it's disruptive, where it's causing harm, where I feel like I do need some help and some support in it. Because I have had people come to me and they've literally just said, I saw this on TikTok and I was concerned. And when you go through the questioning and you ask them, it's not affecting their life, you know, in, in some of these instances and some of them it is, right, you know, but and, you know, TikTok can be a good tool to notify you of this and to say, okay, is this something, but, Just because you have, you know, something that matches something it does not mean it's necessary. Like, it's not a problem unless it's a problem, you know? It's just not. It's like, you know, going to the doctor because, you know, you have a cut and you know that you can take care of it, you know it's fine, it's not infective, but you go there and you're like, oh, but I had a cut, kind of thing. It it's fine, you know, like you, you can take care of it and I'm not discouraging people from coming to therapy, I'm just saying, I mean, really think about the purpose of therapy, of going to places, it's to be able to get support or help because there's something that's You know, in need, something that needs support or something that's, you know, it's not because something matches up and it meets a criteria and you can go and do this.

Erin: 29:35

Right.

tanya: 29:35

And I'm only saying that because I have, I've had that experience. I don't know if you've had that. Yeah, no, I haven't.

Erin: 29:41

That's like the, like where. Back in the day, like what it used to be, just like, don't read WebMD. Now it's like, we have to be like, don't read WebMD and don't get all your diagnoses from complete strangers on the internet because it may resonate and it might be right, but it also might be other things. And Tanya mentioned that if it's affecting your quality of life or other things. So. Is it affecting your schooling? Is it affecting your home life? Is it affecting your job, your relationships? If you've checked no for all of them, then You know, like that, that, then it might be something else, or maybe it's not really a problem.

tanya: 30:19

Yeah it's, you know, I think it's this, it's the TikTok phenomenon, it really is. It's kind of the, you know, if you have this, if you have that. If, it's if you read a horoscope, you can probably read through every single, all 12 signs and say, Ooh, that actually does kind of sound like me. You know, there's some generalities in there that, you know, sure, I'm an Aquarius, but I can sound like a Pisces sometimes, right? You know, like it's not you know, and you have to remember there are some people that are just, you know, reading up and then just passing this information along and they don't necessarily have the filter of understanding how it's applied. Right. And. Or, you know, the education behind the practice of it. which is really right. Important. So, you know, and some people are literally just going off of other tiktoks and then making their own TikTok Yes.

Erin: 31:05

Oh my gosh, yes. Like, it is funny'cause if you watch enough of these things, you start seeing like, oh, wait a minute, didn't I say this already? They're using the exact same words and everything, but it's just a different person. And then you're like, they don't have any qualifications. And they don't have any qualifications and it's so watered down or if it, you know, it's like, so you don't even know where it originated from or if there was any truth to whatever anything that's being said or yeah,

tanya: 31:33

right, right.

Erin: 31:34

some stuff I watch, I'm like, oh gosh, this person is so smart and knows what they're doing. They're, you know, an actual psychologist or psychiatrist or doctor and so I will, you know, definitely You know, listen to the, you know, listen to what they're saying for the most part, but You know, most of the things, it's just for entertainment purposes.

tanya: 31:55

Yeah, but I, there's been this phenomenon of like, oh, if I hear it there that's somebody who knows what they're doing, you know, and I've gotten that, I have gotten that quite a bit, that people will say, well, I know that this is that and that, and I'm like, where did you get that from? Because that's not necessarily, it's actually, a lot of the stuff is not even true, you know, it's like not even, Right. It's not even like, oh, it's a generality. It's not even. True, some of it, you know, it's like the game of operator. You keep passing the information along in this medium it's just gonna get watered down or misconstrued or mixed up and

Erin: 32:28

That's what happens.

tanya: 32:29

Yeah. It's very much, you know, I. I think that things, you know, information, as you pass it down to each person, one person forgets a little detail, that detail, somebody We all have our own biases, our own connections, our own things that we're thinking we're going to add those in, you know, that's why we, you know, you have to be, you have to vet out these sources, you have to know these things, but I keep, you know, I, I work with adults and, you know, some of them are young adults and this is their, I don't feel like it's their primary source of information, but it is a source of information they trust. And I will go over, I know we've gone over this, I know we're not talking about TikTok in this episode, but it's just a thing to really, gotta really know where this information is coming from,

Erin: 33:09

But it's, you have to think too, like, back in our day, like, we would get a lot of our stuff from television or magazines, like Cosmopolitan or something, and, So you're just trusting, like, okay, well, this person that wrote this, we're not able to really seek the sources, or it was on the Jerry Stringer show, or Oprah says it, and so it must be true, but not really able to do other research on it.

tanya: 33:32

Well, I mean, nowadays it's the opposite. It's that there's too much out there. You don't know where to distinguish what's real or not, but it's definitely worth it. I mean, and I guess that's why you'd be, you know, coming to us. And that's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. But just to know, you know, You know, going in there it's, you know, we're probably going to redirect you in that. Yeah. You know, that's more than likely not true.

Erin: 33:54

And also if you go somewhere and they're like, oh yeah, that's right, that's what you have without really questioning or else encouraging any other testing or questions or anything like that, you might want to go to someone else. Yeah. Just to get a second opinion.

tanya: 34:11

Yeah, because what would you typically do if somebody came and they were like, I really just want to know if I have a diagnosis, what would you do?

Erin: 34:17

Oh, me? If you're well, I would say, well, this is something that I usually refer out for testing. I would tell them to, like, I can help them find a psychologist or a psychiatrist that will test them for it. And I let them know that it's a long test, you know, some places I know around here, it's, they might have them come back a couple times to do the test, or some have them sit down for the whole, like, four hours or something. And I let them know that I don't conduct the test. I'm not trained in it, and I'm not able to do it. And, right, and then I will tell them that after they get the diagnosis, I will happily sit with them and we could talk about it and, you know, after, you know, I can help them process their diagnosis, whatever it is.

tanya: 35:03

Yeah, like a neuropsychologist, you know, referral, and that in and of itself can be kind of a pain to get, but it is something that, you know, we can't you know, if you're really wanting an official diagnosis, that is the appropriate route, and then, you know, if it's something you're just saying, hey, I just have these things, and I just kind of want to work with it, these symptoms. Maybe you don't really need an official diagnosis. You're just kind of saying, Hey, these are issues in my life. Like I just need you know, I've had people just come and say, I'm going to school. I need some better routines, right. You know, and or, you know, I'm working at this job and it requires a higher level of organization. I need some, you know, tips to work with. Just even the,

Erin: 35:41

even the tips of not staying up to 1 a. m. if they have a job and how do you do that? How, you know, so it's. Trying to help them learn more skills like almost have like a treatment plan for time management and how to Manage whatever is causing them to stay up to 1 a. m. or not to be focused doing their work like so how to stay a little bit more on task

tanya: 36:05

Yeah, and like, and sleep hygiene, you know, like the effects of not, I mean, like this may sound to some people, you know, it may sound like it's obvious, but to some people it's not, you know, they don't realize that being on, you know, blue screens like your phone or, you know, television, computers, things like that. Yeah. You know, typically you shouldn't, you should stop an hour before bed. Do I do that? Not necessarily, but you know, that's kind of what's recommended if you're having sleep issues, you know, being able to have physical movement. It is, it's a part of being able to sleep well you know, making sure that you've done what you need to do, meditate, things like that, all, you know, all these things that people may think, oh, well, this is just kind of obvious. This is common sense. It's not necessarily to everyone. And I gotta tell you, and I'm not saying this to be insulting, with this generation in their you know, the ones that are kind of in their 20s right now, it is really not common sense at all. Because they have this whole new wave of technology to deal with, you know? And so it, it is you do have to shift that a lot. Yeah,

Erin: 37:04

and it's figuring out how to self soothe too. So you're, so instead of saying like, well, I'm going to just sit with my phone until I fall asleep, or I'm going to. Do something good, you know, and I'm guilty of it too. I don't keep my phone in my room at all. I'm very conscious of keeping my phone plugged in the kitchen, but I'll watch TV. I'll follow. I'll like find myself drooling on my pillow with TV still on. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, let me turn this off. But I do try to a lot of times I do try to be like, OK, well, I'm going to go to. bed at like, you know, like, let's just say like 10 or something, then I'll try to read a couple chapters of a book just because I know, even though I'm like falling asleep while I'm reading sometimes, I know it's good to switch your brain just because I know it's, it helps you sleep deeper. And I know that's really important as part of your sleep hygiene.

tanya: 37:52

Yeah you've got it. And I mean, this really depends on, you know, everybody's different. Some people may work. You know, night shift or second shift, whatever it is, you know, but those are things that you can talk about, you know, to kind of say, okay you know, this may help you, but that's part of the taking into account, you know, the sleep hygiene, the time management, the coping skills to, you know, even how to maybe talk to your boss to say, you know, could I maybe and sometimes this is possible, sometimes it's not, you know, like I've worked with some people where they're at very, you know, High level corporate jobs, you know and them going to their manager and saying I may need an extra day on this is not It's not something that's possible, right? But then if you're not for a lot of jobs, but then if you have

Erin: 38:31

the diagnoses, that's something to that It may be something that you're allowed to go to HR and it could be on I don't know your record or whatever you call it like your char I don't know what they call it at work, you know, like you would just Have it on your file. That's it. So that you have it, you have those diagnoses. Like, of course, it's not going to be like, company wide known, but maybe your manager would know. Maybe, you know, so then you have that ability to have the extra time.

tanya: 38:58

Possibly. I think for some jobs, it may just be the awareness of, okay, I have to let this person know. know, you know, maybe ahead of time so that they can't have that extra time kind of thing. But you know, yeah, things that they can work with and, you know, when it comes down to it, I do have to say, I think it's been kind of difficult because even if you have the diagnosis, you know, some companies are just like, you have to perform no matter what, you have to find ways to do this.

Erin: 39:26

You're hired for this position, try to figure it out, you know, like almost like you're an adult. Figure it out. Like so and that's it where sometimes people excel working from you know in the office because then they have that freedom to almost be like I'm gonna go to the bathroom and then maybe take A longer way to walk so that might help change their Brain a little bit like the way they're thinking and then they might be able to be more focused when they get back at their Desk, so I'm finding yeah I'm finding a lot of people working from home who might be struggling with us having more difficulty maybe Because they don't, they almost don't factor actual breaks or ways to stretch or ways to almost change their the way they're thinking or, you know, during the working hours, so they're just getting frustrated or getting stuck on a one or two tasks because they're not giving themselves an actual physical break.

tanya: 40:18

Yeah, they may think, well, I have so much to do and I always fall behind, but it may be because they're not breaking it up. They're not like, you know, allowing for a refresher in that and like setting yourself up. to be structured in that. And, you know, just to go back, you know, to that point where if it is on your file, I think some places may work with you, but I think there are some places that they may say, okay, you know, you can work with you, you know, they may send you to to go work with a therapist, right. You know, and say, well, you got to find some strategies, right. You know, so it kind of, it, it depends. And that is where we would come in to try and say, okay, well, what does work better for you? You know, you can't necessarily have that. That time or you can't have this because of that. So a diagnosis of it is not necessarily something saying, you know, you can have extra time and extra this. And I think some people will come in thinking that's what's going to happen. But it's really about no, we're trying to actually find ways that you can, work with to say, Okay, how does this work for you to be able to get this done? You know, because your brain may work differently, or your, you know, attention may be different. How do we get this, the results, though, you know, because that's what you have to do, you know, and that's just some companies, they just, you know, That's just the way it is. Yeah. And you

Erin: 41:30

mentioned movement too. And so that might even be, you know, even if you worked with this person too, of like how much movement are you getting throughout the day? Because that might help them too, to stay more focused. Like, are you exercise in the morning? Do you exercise before bed? Do you take a break at lunchtime or, you know, so what are you doing to move, to, you know, because all of that also helps. So a lot of times people think, oh, if I'm staying still, then that should help, you know, help me stay more focused. Why would I want to exercise? Because that's gonna make me get hyper, or, but it's not going to. It might actually help you to stay a little calmer and more focused.

tanya: 42:06

I think a lot of people just don't they just say they don't have the time to do it, you know, but you, I mean, even just getting in small movements, you know, walking around, if you know, we, we have, you know, small breaks sometimes in between clients, sometimes if they're like in an emergency or something, maybe not, but, you know, even I'll go out on my porch and I'll just I'll stand in the sun and maybe just kind of like pace around and Because, you know, during the summer it can be, you know, if you live in a place that has four strong seasons, you know, or, you know, whatever that is, you know, just being able to get the sun when you can make a big difference in kind of refreshing and replenishing your brain and getting things going, you know, and that can be, you That can be something. So, I do know I've had people I've worked with and they've said, you know, things are just better in the summer because they probably have more access to being able to go out.

Erin: 42:53

You

tanya: 42:53

know, they don't have to like stay in, it's not dark at like 4 p. m., and yeah, that can definitely have a strong effect on you. But you know, this all kind of leads to if you're kind of, you know, coming to us as an adult, whether you have a diagnosis or don't, or you're just having organizational issues or focus issues that people may attribute and think, oh, well, it's ADHD it may just, it may require some learning, some strategies and putting a structure in place and kind of seeing what works for you, you know, and I mean, I know what you're saying, like you kind of have to find things that, that work for you. And, you know, some people that maybe they find something and they like that and they keep that, And that works for them. Yeah. You have to find what, what works for you, what stimulates you, what gets you going, what keeps you focused, you know, able to pay attention. I think something, you know, when you have a therapist to talk to, that's what you do, you know? Is, you figure out the things what motivates you? Yeah. What keeps you focused? What keeps you interested? Yeah. What's fun? And if you start to not feel interested, where can you go? Where can you start to look? Yeah. How can you continue to set this up so that you're not gonna just say, okay, I'm just gonna do this for. You know, five months and I'm going to keep going because you're probably going to be not motivated to do that. That's just not how a lot of people work. And some

Erin: 44:05

people work better in groups. That's why there's so many different classes and so many different things. And meetup is still a thing. People still do that where they might be like, you know what, I'm going to, I like hiking. I don't want to do it alone. So I'm going to join this group. And that's really good. So you're getting outside and active. So just finding what you like. And I always tell, I know we've talked about this before, but whenever I have clients that are like, Oh, I don't know what to do. I don't know what my hobby is. I don't know what I like to do for activity. I always say, go back to what you liked as a kid. I don't, well, go back. What did you like as a middle schooler? What did you like as a high schooler? What did you just, so like, just go back because. You're still that person and sometimes you forget it. Like even like now, I'm trying to do jump roping. I loved jump roping as a kid. I loved it. My mom was like Queen Double Dutcher, you know, cuz South Bronx, you know, just you know, like she, she loved double dutch and she always like incorporated jump roping with us as kids. And I just remember just like thinking jump roping was the coolest. But then some reason, some part of my life, I just stopped. And so now I'm trying to bring it back. I mean, I'm not trying to bring it back for everybody. I'm just trying to bring it back for me and my family, but I just, it's just fun. And and it's neat too, cause then I'm thinking about my mom when I'm doing it too, and it's kind of, you know, some good memories and it's like, but it's fun. It's so, I always just tell people, like, just try to think of what you might have liked, so maybe you used to like basketball. Maybe you liked hopscotch, draw a hopscotch thing on your driveway and just do that at your break at work. Wouldn't that be funny? Yeah.

tanya: 45:32

I think a lot of people maybe are You know they say they don't really, they didn't really have anything they were interested in, maybe they talked to friends, maybe they did that, you know, and but even then, that's like, okay, well, maybe you need more socializing, you know, like, maybe that's kind of the thing that's missing, you know, so there's always little, like, cues there, yeah, there definitely is, you know.

Erin: 45:50

Yeah, and, yeah, even if you like talking to friends, yeah, are they still around? Maybe you do a video game with them for a little bit, and then you reward your, you know, like, or you do some sort of movement while you're doing the video game. You know, so you're not just sitting playing it, you're still having that interaction with them.

tanya: 46:06

Yeah, like figuring out what motivates you what's going to help you along. These are all things, you know, that we would explore and, you know, for some people they may say, I don't need that, I don't, okay, great, then you don't need it, that's great. You know what I mean? But there's some people that they do need it, they have a tough time with that. Maybe they're, you know, in phases and transitions, things got lost and they never really, you know, Got back to them. They don't know how to get back. Yeah. Yeah, it's so that's where we would

Erin: 46:31

come in Yeah, sometimes we lose part of ourselves and like because life gets so busy And hectic. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to stay focused sometimes.

tanya: 46:39

Yeah. So, I mean, this is kinda, I know this kinda went off into like, psychoeducation and, or, you know, kinda just being able to, you know, coping skills and things like that, but, you know, in, in general we just basically wanna say, you know, these are things that, We would be looking at, you know, for as kids and as adults for possible diagnoses or just needing specific treatment plans. But we hope you learned something from this episode and you know, understanding the importance of diagnoses and just a little more about therapy, which is what we're here to do. so, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at wicked psychotherapists on Facebook We are the wicked psychotherapists subscribe and follow wherever you currently listen to podcasts If you write us a review that helps us out a lot and don't forget stay wicked

Erin: 47:28

and keep your mind. Well, all right Have a great day and great week.

tanya: 47:33

Bye guys. Bye. Bye

47:34

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