When Reality is Stranger than Fiction: The Denise Huskins Story and the Challenges of Being Believed

* This Episode Has Spoilers*

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, hosts Tanya and Erin discuss the chilling true crime case of Denise Huskins, who was kidnapped and initially disbelieved by both public opinion and the police. 

The episode dives into the psychological impacts of not being believed, the biases in investigations, and the resilience of victims. 

They also touch upon how similar sensationalized cases, like 'Gone Girl' and the Sherry Papini case, further complicate public perception.

*This Episode Has Spoilers from the Netflix 'American Nightmare' Documentary*

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

tanya: 0:31

today we are going to be talking about something that's been really popular It's a documentary called An American Nightmare. And this was kind of that quote unquote, Gone Girl case where it was believed the, There was a couple involved where there were a lot of different elements, a lot of things that went wrong, a lot of things that were not believed, and how this ended up turning out. If you've been following, you know that it's definitely a different end result than what you'd probably be expecting. And so we thought we'd talk about that and some of the mental health aspects of being believed or not being believed. for your time. As a a victim and why social media plays an important part of some this going into it as well as public opinion and what the police investigate versus what they don't based on possible biases or, you know, just what they feel has happened. so, I think this was, This is a really I really liked watching this, uh, this documentary. I like true crime. I love true crime actually. So to me it was really, I had known about this case but to see the documentary and to see the main characters, the couple, Denise Huskins and her now husband's name. I was going to say Andy, but I don't think that's right. I was thinking Adam

Erin: 1:53

or

tanya: 1:53

Josh Aaron. Aaron. Okay. We knew it was something with an A. Aaron, uh, like, you know, they're, uh, they went through hell. They really did to, in this story. This was something that was, perpetrated on them and then to even be believed was a lot. So if you have not watched this will certainly be, as we often say, you know, this will contain spoiler alerts. So be aware of that. But hopefully you're probably watching this because you are interested or you want to watch it or you just want to hear about some discussion about it. But what did you, what were your first impressions when you first started watching this documentary?

Erin: 2:31

I think I probably was on the fence of thinking that the two of them made it up and it was just a ridiculous scam for money or something. I had no idea what the final outcome was going to be and I have to say I did not believe her at first. I didn't know what was happening.

tanya: 2:52

Yeah it's really confusing because it starts out with these, you know, this couple that, they've been together for, actually, they hadn't been together too long. Yeah. But, I mean, maybe I think like a year or so when they were living together and, Aaron had just, Broken up with another person. I believe her name was it Andrea or Melissa? I don't know, but he had just broken up with someone and he had been seeing her while he was seeing Denise. so they were a little bit rocky at this point. There was kind of some of that back and forth. So there's already kind of some turmoil there. There's already some drama, but then. You know, one night they are awoken to flashing lights and people who are in their house. This is Denise and Aaron. And they are, I think like blindfolded. They're told all these crazy things. They learn that these people are all in wetsuits, that they're on like some mission. Yeah. It just sounds really bizarre. Yeah.

Erin: 3:53

It sounds like, it does sound like it's so, everything is so over the top. Yeah. It's like, okay, did they get us from Mission Impossible? Like, what is, what, it's, they're gonna escape

tanya: 4:02

through the

Erin: 4:02

sewers, yeah. Yeah, it just seems really so ridiculous that it's, it, nothing about it seems real.

tanya: 4:09

No it doesn't. It sounds really crazy. And there's all these extra details that you're just like, why would, why? That doesn't make any sense if these people don't have any ties. And by the way, this Denise and Aaron are both like, I think they're both PhD level physical therapists, you know, so they both have PhDs in like physical therapy. So they're both smart, very, yeah, highly educated, successful, no issues with the law, nothing. They inject both of them with drugs. They tell Aaron, like, don't call the police. Don't say this. Don't say that. He ends up passing out. And then when he wakes up, Denise is gone. They've taken her. He realizes there's like a camera on him watching him. So he doesn't really know what to do. Because I believe they said something like if you involve the police, we're going to Harm her or something. So he's like, what do I do? And like, so much time has passed because he was drugged. So there's just a lot of really like, you know, the timeline is really like, wow, he didn't call anyone, but they, you know, then there's the contextual factor of. They were loaded with drugs, you know, so he

Erin: 5:18

was probably passed out or. Unable to, because he probably couldn't comprehend what was happening for hours.

tanya: 5:26

Yeah, no, he passed out. Yeah, he like he woke up and it was like, I don't even know how many hours later, but he, and then he had a camera on him. So he was like, well, if I call the police and I guess he had to like, stay within a certain area that they had like demarcated off. And, it was just a crazy tale that it sounded like it came from like almost, uh, like an hallucinated event, you know what I mean? Like it was very, it was wild. And so when he finally did call the police, because I think he just thought, well, You know, I probably should. He just kind of made that decision. They had a hard time believing it because it doesn't sound kind of, kind of, kind of out there. And let's face it. It does sound, I think most of us would probably be like, What did these people smoke, or what did they take, you know, during this, like, did they just kind of, I don't know, and that was kind of what I thought, I was like, oh wow, like, I had heard the story, but I was like, oh, maybe they found out some different details or something when I was walking, watching the documentary but the police did not really investigate it, they didn't, Try to, you know, gather any information they didn't collect much from the house. They kind of from the start believed this was just something made up, which is, that's one thing for public opinion, but it's another thing for police who are, that's

Erin: 6:44

their

tanya: 6:44

job to

Erin: 6:44

investigate. Yeah. And it must've been just even as the person who called the police thinking that they're going to help you, it must've made Aaron feel even more helpless. Like here, my girlfriend's gone. She really is gone. Can you help me? Yeah.

tanya: 6:59

Yeah, and they started to suspect him. They thought he had did something. They were grilling him. They were like, come on, man. Like, what do you do? What'd you do with her? And he was like, I don't know. And it sounds like every other interrogation you've ever heard before they crack and are finally like, all right, I, you know, shoved her body here or threw her in a lake kind of thing.

Erin: 7:18

There's no scuba divers. It was just me. Trying up, trying to make,

tanya: 7:23

Yeah, it really, it's, it really is a crazy tale. And in the meantime, Denise was kidnapped. She was brought to, she was blindfolded. She's being drugged repeatedly. She's being told these like crazy things like, Oh, they, the bosses need us to, you know, we have to record us sleeping together. It has to look consensual. And so she was raped quite a few times because she obviously had no say in this. And, You know, the, it was strange because the male that was with her seemed to have, it was, he almost seemed to kind of be trying, he was trying to give the impression that he like actually cared or like he was kind of trying to soften the blow and he wasn't really in control of this, but I mean, he was still doing, he was a part of kidnapping and raping. So, I mean, that's, it really was not, you know, he

Erin: 8:14

almost, yeah, he tried to do He tried to make it seem like he was more compassionate and that he it wasn't his fault But I don't know it just see it I think we find out like he was pretty much that not only the person doing it But he was the boss. He was in charge of it all. Oh, he was I didn't know that. Yeah Oh, I think they reveal it like he there really wasn't anybody else. It was just him.

tanya: 8:41

Oh cuz they had said they heard other voices and stuff like

Erin: 8:43

that It might have been one other person, but I remember either reading it or maybe I'm crazy But I do remember like he was pretty much the main person Okay, so he yeah, and he and

tanya: 8:56

actually we don't really know his motive, but we do know that after this was all reported, they did, or he did let Denise go and they have footage of her being let go. And it just looks like she's casually getting out of a car and walking towards her apartment. She's not like hysterical. She's not like all bruised up. And so that just gives even more kind of, I think, fuel to the belief in the police's eyes that she's not, nothing's really happening there. Yeah, because they say like, you

Erin: 9:27

know, well, why would they just let her walk home? Why wasn't she screaming? Why, you know, why isn't she? Like dirty or coming through the woods or whatever. It's just so for that. It also made them not believe her even more.

tanya: 9:43

Yeah, and I mean that what they, you know, first off, everybody might react differently. Denise is like a very, I think she's a very level headed, very stoic person. Like, that's kind of, I think that may just be her personality and she's also had past history of sexual assault which may be kind of, you know, maybe she's, she just kind of went into like a shocked state and maybe that's how she presented, you know, so there's a lot of different factors that could have happened. Maybe she was just overly relieved or was still not sure what was going on. Maybe she was still drugged, whatever it was. But they had a hard time believing her and it took her a little bit to realize, Oh wait, they're not questioning me to help me. When she finally, you know, when she was able to talk to the police, they're questioning me because they think I made this up or I did this. And then the police ended up having a conference basically saying, we're not investigating anymore. We believe that this has been a waste of police resources. So basically saying these people did it and you know, not even Investigating that much on that end.

Erin: 10:51

Yeah. So we're not going to investigate and we really feel like you're liars and we're going to put it in all the papers and everywhere. And do a news didn't the chief or someone do like a news broadcast too, of saying, basically saying they, the two of them were, Lying.

tanya: 11:08

Yeah. That was the news conference. They were like, they said, you know, like, we're not going to investigate this anymore. We feel they've wasted, Denise Huskins has wasted our resources, you know, so that's like base, that's saying like, she's lying, you know, and this has all been a ruse or whatever. And they just said it so confidently. It's it was just I mean imagine that just having this awful weird experience where you don't know why it's happened and then to have that broadcast and everybody to feel like you just made something up and I mean, I don't even know like it's, you know, victim blaming on top of victim blaming and shaming.

Erin: 11:44

Yeah, and just feeling like, okay, well, these two must be attention seeking and not even realizing that you're not everyone is. looking for attention or looking for the spotlight. They actually truly had something traumatic happen to them and we're seeking help.

tanya: 12:01

Yeah. It's, and you know, it's kind of ironic because it stayed that way for quite a while until they were going to charge. I think they were going to charge them with something, which is again, adding even, more salt to the wound. But, They were going to charge Denise and Aaron with salt, like for, you know, falsifying a report and like wasting police resources, whatever those charges are. And kidnapper the main male who was, you know, thought he was so nice and caring towards her, he was so mad that I don't know if it was because she was getting blamed or he wasn't getting credit for it, whatever it was. He wrote to the police station and said, this was not her. And like, basically convince them, Hey, there's someone else that did this, which I think is so odd that's what it took that he, he could not handle not having credit or her being blamed or whatever it was in his mind, you know, that no we did this. And that's what convinced the police, or that was like the evidence that stopped them from kind of saying, Oh wait, there might be something else here. Like the criminal had to come forward.

Erin: 13:11

Yeah. That's really bizarre to me. Which is completely bizarre and it does make you wonder what made, what compelled him to write in or to call in or whatever he did and I'm sure it has something to do with his ego wasn't being stroked or, you know, what other tendencies, but it is, it's very bizarre that they would not believe the victim, but they're going to listen to the person that committed the crimes as. the person of honor and truth.

tanya: 13:39

Yeah. And that, that he, that it's very rare. A criminal will come forward and fight and say, Hey, this actually did happen. Like he could have gotten away with this. And I'm not at all complimenting this guy. I'm just saying, what the hell was his motive in doing that? And why did it take that much for the police to be like, Oh, an actual crime happened. You know, like that's so bizarre. It's so weird to me. It really

Erin: 14:03

is. It's really bizarre. And it's Yeah, it's like you wonder, you know, of course, we don't know, but maybe he did want to get caught. Maybe, you know, it's yeah,

tanya: 14:13

maybe in his like sick twisted way he thought he like cared about Denise and I'm not saying he did, but maybe in a way he thought this was or maybe this is just, I don't know, whatever he was thinking. He's a twisted person. Obviously, he's got some, he's got a lot of issues. whatever it was. It's just, that's not very o that's pretty much never happens. And that's, and this was happening over years. This didn't just all happen one after the next. So she had to live with this, thinking like, okay, I've been traumatized and nobody believes me and this is dragging on and on. And then it took the criminal writing in, which, to, to stop

Erin: 14:51

that. Yeah, it just. Yeah, you can't make this stuff up. And that's why even again, the documentary felt more like a movie than it did a documentary. It didn't feel real. It didn't feel like any of this really could happen. And I know they kept comparing it to the book in the movie Gone Girl, because it was very, you know, and that's also why the police weren't believing because it just came out, you know, A year or so earlier or six months it was right around the same time and it did feel very Much the same of like, oh, here's someone disappeared. It doesn't mean, you know, it can't be real They you know, so it's yeah, it is just the whole thing It's just very bizarre that the kidnapper would then try to not become the hero but become the person to You Say, hey, this is what really happened, try to help justice, I guess, I don't know.

tanya: 15:43

And that's how he got himself caught. I think they were able to trace back like some DNA or something, and they caught him. Like he basically, he got himself caught. Yeah. And so for whatever reason, I mean, I think there's still some stuff that's not quite cleared up, like, as in what, if, were there, you know, was this some big mission or was this just some big delusion from this guy that. Was just, I don't know, but

Erin: 16:06

yeah,

tanya: 16:07

another thing that was really kind of crazy. If you can imagine something just still being crazy in this case is that this apparently was meant for Aaron's ex girlfriend, the one that he had kind of sorta stepped out on Denise with a little bit and they had even said that on that first day when they went in there, like the kidnapper, kidnappers, whatever had said, this is for. So and so, whatever the girl's name is, the ex's name is. And they tried to say, Hey, she doesn't live here anymore. And they were like, well, we got to go through with it. So this was all meant for his ex. This wasn't even meant for what I, who knows what anything was meant for. So I don't know. It was just strange. And she, I know the girlfriend was questioned. The ex girlfriend was questioned. I can't remember if her name was Andrea or Melissa, or I don't know why I'm thinking Andrea or Melissa, but you know, they she was like, I don't, I really don't know why to me personally, this is my own personal opinion. When they were questioning her, I thought she was definitely hiding something. Like she did seem to know something. That was just the way I felt, but I don't know. I mean, who knows what the heck

Erin: 17:14

it was. Could just be that yeah, she's Wondering why is she being roped in it or she could be part of it, but it's just yeah

tanya: 17:21

Yeah, to me it felt like she was kind of a an iffy character. I don't know I didn't really trust what she had to say But I mean this is certainly, you know being able to find out that oh this did happen this person had to Turn himself in for the police to say, hey, a crime happened and don't you dare blame Denise or whatever. Yeah, you know. I just did a

Erin: 17:47

Google search I guess the guy is in jail for like 40 years for the kidnapping.

tanya: 17:51

Oh, he, okay, so he's already been sentenced. Yeah. Okay, was he, was there anyone else that was implicated at all? Or does it say?

Erin: 17:59

It just says him. Okay. 40 years kidnapping. Because I

tanya: 18:03

know they were kind of wondering that, but they, I mean that's gotta be scary for Denise and aaron though, too, what if it was other people involved and they're still out there? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, what? I don't know. But that, it just is so insane to me. And so I just thought, besides it being a crazy story, mental health wise, you know, not being believed as a victim, I think has just done irreparable damage. Right. You know, I think Again, Denise could have, I would have reacted horribly to, I mean, like, I would have just been overreacted, but. Oh yeah,

Erin: 18:34

I'd probably be just shaking in a corner, not able to really

tanya: 18:37

communicate. Yeah. It's tough, I mean, I guess we, we don't really know, but like, you know. Yeah, you don't know

Erin: 18:42

your resilience and honestly how you would handle, I mean, like a lot of people have. You know, like when we're put in different situations, sometimes we really show up differently than we, envision we would, you know, they say our fight or flight or just even how you handle any sort of trauma or any experience might really be different than what you envision. And I hope, you know, I hope None of us ever have to experience anything, anywhere even a sliver like that.

tanya: 19:12

Yeah. Anywhere near it, yeah. And I mean, I guess now they're, you know, they've been able to, I think they have, they won a lawsuit against, which I'm happy. Yeah, the city, the

Erin: 19:22

police station or something, or.

tanya: 19:24

Yeah, and they got a payout, which they at least deserved because I mean, their names were tarnished. I mean, even if people are now seeing, Oh, there was something that happened, there's still always a question, right? You know, and they still have the trauma. They still have, they're married now. They have like a couple of kids, I believe you know, and they're, Look like they're doing well, but they're still, this is something that's with them for the rest of their lives. And yeah, and it really kind of, you know, got us questioning about it because of the gone girl being out that year. Did they just kind of go into that thinking that, Oh, this must be some copycat and this sounds too fantastical and we just don't really believe it. And so we're just not going to investigate it. Of course, other cases are definitely brought up, even if they don't have the weird circumstances, if there's no proof it's a huge problem to be victimized on top of crime that you've experienced that has victimized you you know, and so,

Erin: 20:19

unfortunately, that happens. So often, you know to people like from different things where they feel like they're not being heard You know, you know, you read about it and you hear about it. So it's so that's again, it's pretty amazing that Denise was able to say like no she kept Almost like kept her cool. Like no, this is my truth. This is the truth. I'm going to Not be bullied or be convinced, you know have them convince me otherwise of what the truth is

tanya: 20:48

Yeah, she's very strong resilience for sure. And I mean, and then, you know, there are other cases and this was after all of this, I think this had happened in 2012. There's another case, the Sherry Papini case that happened in 2015, 2016. That was later where this woman, she actually did fake her own kidnapping. She completely made it up. She went with an ex boyfriend and, there were, I mean, the officers were wanting to help. They did believe her at first. It was only when things started to not line up that they were like, wait a minute, and they, you know, investigated it, but there certainly are cases where people may fake things, you know, and but that makes it a lot harder for people who actually have experienced trauma to, you know, get some of These cases believed and you know, Sherry Papini could go on and on. That could be a whole different episode. She's got a lot of mental health issues, but, there's just a lot that she's had from a very young age, so they could see, but it really is, I think you know, really tough and I think our roles as mental health practitioners. You know, it, it is to believe and to validate and to be aware, right? We're not here to say, Oh, I don't think that happened. Right. You know, unless there's like something people are not facing up to themselves and we're there to kind of challenge that a little bit, we're not here to question if a crime happened or not. You know, somebody comes to, if somebody like Denise Hoskins had come to, you know, we would. We would listen, we would validate, we would say that, you know, would have been really hard, even if it is something that's very fantastical, like we would take on, you know, that role and just say, okay, how can we get you support? Right. You know, but it sounds like, I mean, just her being able to even get justice in this case was a long, insane and awful path.

Erin: 22:41

Yeah. And then you have to think too, for, you know, having to relive that and keep retelling it and until finally somebody was like, okay, let's, you know, we believe you or.

tanya: 22:54

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And, you know, I think. This makes this difficult for people to, to speak up, right? Because they, they hear about these stories or they know someone, or they just inherently understand how some people are not believed. You have to tell this story over and over again. You're reliving it. You're already hurting from this. You're traumatized from this. Going through this is another trauma to just try and. Proof that it happened. That's overload.

Erin: 23:21

Yeah, it's very re traumatizing and, you know, I can't imagine how traumatic it would be.

tanya: 23:28

Yeah, which is why I think sometimes you know, uh, people don't understand, some people may not understand people not reporting stuff like this happening. If they were like kids or maybe not even, just years later they might report it because Well, they may not realize it was wrong at the time, they may have blocked it out, or they may just realize, no one's going to believe me, but, you know, it, trauma will change you and will, you know, have you wanting to seek out, you know, some sort of Resolution or some sort of processing. And so over the years you might decide, I do need to talk about this, whether or not I'm believed. And some people are bewildered. Like, why didn't you say something back then? This, I mean, this is an extreme example, but it's a microcosm of all the reasons why, you know, like people don't, you know, they, they're not. And this is, you know, this is Denise Huskins is a blonde hair, blue eyed white woman. Right? You know, imagine, you know, person of color or somebody low socioeconomic status or somebody that, you know, is maybe a sex worker, you know what I mean? Something like that they, you know, may have You know, been like, uh, and just been completely dismissive of, you know, even though they were pretty dismissive of her. So it's a big, it's a big issue and it really points out a big gap, I think, in the public perception in our justice system and in beliefs and victims of crime. Yeah,

Erin: 24:55

for sure. Yeah. It'd be nice if people are heard more and do you feel like it's always safe to tell and if there's a different system put up?

tanya: 25:04

Yeah, and it's I mean, it's understandable. I know sometimes it's a he said she said or you know just there's not much evidence, but it does not mean It doesn't mean that you should just say, Oh, there's nothing we can do, you know, at least point to some resources or say, Hey, maybe if this, then that, you know, there's different things. I refuse to believe there's not like at least something that can be done other than saying, Oh, we don't have any evidence. Sorry. Or we don't believe you or let's charge you with a crime for, you know, being kidnapped and raped. Cause that certainly Is the least helpful of them all, putting that mildly, but yeah, so anything else that you want to add to that, to just kind of what, what happened in that case or the victimology of that?

Erin: 25:48

I think we really talked about, I mean, like, I know this is kind of what one of our shorter episodes, but I feel like we talked about. A lot of what we wanted to, I was going to say, we talked about a lot about what we want to talk about, but we, I think what we really wanted to express was how some people don't get hurt and how people are almost prejudging for like, okay, well, we've, heard the story already, or we know what the outcome's going to be. Even how we were talking at the beginning, when I started watching the documentary, I hadn't heard anything about this couple. So I was like, oh gosh, what is this? This seems okay, so they're up to it. They planned everything. This is so dumb So over the top with scuba divers or scuba deer. I mean you just picture i'm like, uh, Just sloshing through the house, but there's you know, it just seems so Ridiculous, but and that's what I was thinking and then when the more you're hearing you're like, oh my god, this is horrific and it's just Real and then you're like, oh my gosh this poor girl this poor guy and You it's just really, it is, it was really sad and it's, it just, I was very happy to hear like when I heard that they were able to sue and hopefully they moved out of that town and, you know, just somewhere different and, you know, they feel heard and now, you know, it just, you know, just feels they hopefully can feel safe. I'm sure there's still the trauma and I'm sure they had PTSD and hopefully they went through therapy and counseling. to help themselves, you know, after such a traumatic event.

tanya: 27:17

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely something that they're going to have a lot to heal from and not just from the crime inflicted on them, but from the, well, Yeah, kind of the wrongdoings of the police department and the public opinion that was launched at, yeah.

Erin: 27:33

Cause it's also, they're in a different, unique situation where it's not just, you know, one or two people knowing what happened. Now all of a sudden it's the whole town, it's the whole country. You know, when it was like the broadcast, I'm sure it was on like the different news channels, like about like that they were lying and. Until they were able to clear their name, I think they even lost their jobs and it was just very It's probably very difficult. Yeah.

tanya: 27:59

Yeah. It's, it definitely, they went through an ordeal and I'm glad they got redemption and they were able to speak on that. I saw them speaking, I think it was in the documentary at the end where they were like, you know, we said this happened and it happened. Like we weren't, you know, we were able to just to be able to say, Hey, we were telling the truth. And now you see it is something so yeah, if you get a chance if you're into this type of stuff, or if you're just curious about what we're talking about, it's called an American nightmare on Netflix. So we hope you enjoyed this episode. You got something out of it. You can see how quickly things can, you know, even we thought, oh, wow, this sounds really absurd. But at the same point, We're the public, they're the police. So, keep that in mind when you're watching it.

Erin: 28:43

We didn't have all the evidence. Or, you know, like, all of us as viewers, even as therapists, we're just watching it as, like, just, people watching documentaries at first, and it's just, yeah, it's just really hard to, Yeah,

tanya: 28:57

that's not how we would make a professional opinion, you know, that's just what we were just thinking, you know, so they certainly shouldn't have the police when they have all that at their disposal to investigate, but yeah, so, uh, let us know what you think. Don't forget to leave us comments. Let us know if you have suggestions. for future episodes. We always love that. Don't forget to follow us. We are on Instagram, we're at Wicked Psychotherapists. On Facebook, we are The Wicked Psychotherapists. Subscribe and follow, wherever you listen, leave us a review, that always helps us. Five stars, helps us out the most. So if you can, that would be great. Yeah. Yeah. And don't forget, stay wicked. And keep your mind

Erin: 29:42

well.

tanya: 29:43

Okay. Yes. All right guys, you take care. We'll see you next week.

Erin: 29:47

Okay. All right. Bye bye. Bye

tanya: 29:48

guys.

29:49

We Wish You a Merry Christmas I'm going to be doing a lot of this. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.