Beyond Loss: Understanding Lesser-Known Griefs

In this episode of 'Wicked Psychotherapists,' Tanya and Erin discuss the various forms of grief beyond the common experiences of losing a loved one or a pet.  

They delve into how major life transitions, such as changing jobs, moving, or personal evolution, can bring about grief. 

The hosts also share personal stories and professional insights on managing these complex emotions, offering listeners new perspectives and coping strategies. 

The episode emphasizes the importance of recognizing and validating these feelings, even when they don't fit the typical grief narrative, and encourages listeners to share their own experiences.

*This episode is a re-release

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Transcript

intro: 0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

Erin: 0:31

Hi y'all, this is Tanya. And this is Erin. And this is the Wicked Psychotherapists. Welcome.

Tanya: 0:36

What do we got for today?

Erin: 0:38

Well, today, we're actually not talking about TV shows, it seems like.

Tanya: 0:46

We've been Netflixing it. Yeah.

Erin: 0:48

Actually, one of my friends sent me a picture the other day of, hey, here's a possible topic. So when this, this airs, we'll post the picture up, but it's things we grieve. I guess I should just read it, right? Just maybe I'll just read the whole things we grieve and then also things we might grieve. Yeah,

Tanya: 1:07

sure. And then we can kind of talk about some things that are popping up.

Erin: 1:10

Yeah. So the things we grieve. So today's topic is some of the things that are. Not as known or things we don't always talk about when we think of grief or things we grieve. Some of the most common things that, that we grieve are the loss of a loved one, our pet, a breakup, or a divorce. Some things that we also might grieve, and these are things that we're going to talk about in more in depth, are some major life transitions. And that could be like a new job or a baby, getting, getting divorced, getting married. Like just, it could be happy things, sad things. Not living the life we had hoped we'd be living. We'd have. So that's kind of like the existential crisis. Yeah, that's a big, the effects of big decisions. And it says even when those decisions are ultimately good ones. So that could be, Hey, you know what? I've decided to apply for a new job and I'm really happy for myself. I'm also sad and scared, or moving or losing a job, or switching careers or breakup. Or friendship breakup. Yeah. Yeah. Especially as we get older, sometimes friends that we've had, we might realize they're, we really want in our lives as adults and that can be tough, no matter, or no matter what age or, and moving to a new location. So those are just some of the things. So Tanya and I thought it would be kind of interesting to talk about the different types of grief and not, Again, not always just death or loss. How some of this grief can be more complicated grief or compound grief and And we wanted to explain what that is as well.

Tanya: 2:43

It's just not really discussed or maybe it's not as out in the open that we can have grief when we get a new job. But you may be grieving your old job. You may be grieving an old identity from that job. Same with friendships. What was my life like with that friend? Or what have I lost? The memories that I still hold. And those things can really affect you. And I'm not sure that people fully understand the weight of the grief when I've spoken to clients and people in general, that when you talk about this, they might put on a type of, this is just something that, that happens in life and they tend to maybe push away the feelings and feel like they, they shouldn't have to feel all these things attached to it, but there's importance to it and there's, A difference between feeling some feelings and then having grief based on that. Grief is a more prolonged period of these emotions and feeling like there's not a resolve in some of these things that you may have lost or perceive that you've lost. One of the things that really sticks out to me is, I hear often, is grieving a life lost of what could have been. Maybe if I had gone in this path, if I had done this or this Lost job opportunity. Yeah. And I hear.

Erin: 3:59

And if only I was given these different opportunities. To go to this college, or if I took this job instead of that one, or if I didn't move, or if I did move. So yeah, the grief, the life we don't know, or the life we could have had.

Tanya: 4:12

Right, and things that we wish maybe we had at certain points, different supports, different understandings of ourself. That maybe we're looking back and saying, what could have been? What is something that commonly that you do hear either from your clients or just maybe personally that you find is difficult to deal with that? And how do you recognize that as more of a grief as opposed to just kind of some, some feelings about it? Do you have any experience with that with clients or personally?

Erin: 4:42

Yeah, well, we mentioned too, like a lot of it is, is it existential thought or dread or is it? Sadness or is it grief? Are we grieving the person we were or we could have been? And like Tanya said, we have to see how long it's happened, how long it's been going, has it been just days, weeks, months? Is it prolonged grief? Is it just something where, where we need to talk it out? But yes, I had people when they have big life transitions, changings of jobs or just different things happening where you have to pause and be like, I think the feeling that you're having. about the situation. You might be grieving, well, maybe this isn't the job I thought I was going to have when I was in high school or just during college, or this isn't where I thought I was going to be, but it's different maybe than helping them get different perspective or helping them grieve what didn't is helpful.

Tanya: 5:34

Yeah. And there's, do you ever get that aha moment? I know I, I definitely have with when you rephrase it and reframe it as grief and they're like, Oh, yeah, maybe it is because that gives it a different context, right? Yeah. It, it definitely opens up this understanding of, oh, wait, this was an important moment in my life, as opposed to possibly just some feelings that maybe I should get over by now, when this is something that deeply affected me, this is something that does change my life. The trajectory of my feelings, it changes the way my life is shaped going forward. Everyone probably heard

Erin: 6:13

there's stages to grief. I'm feeling sad or I'm feeling angry. That's okay. Or I'm stuck in this one period. And that's, that might help them to come to the present if they're stuck in the past.

Tanya: 6:25

Yeah, that's a good point because it really can change. Be distressful to realize you're having emotions on top of emotions, right? Like I'm having feelings about why I'm feeling this way. And I think that definitely gives a perspective of, okay, this makes sense. It's not something that's irrational. In fact, it's pretty understood. It's something that we can certainly put into a frame of that was a big loss. It was something that was tough. And I do hear themes of people saying things such as feeling they got into the wrong career. That's a big one. And feeling like maybe they didn't take a job opportunity, missed, missed money or missed clout, whatever they could have gained from that, maybe missed relationships. Feeling like the one that got away was really the one that got away. A whole span of issues that, that people could feel this particular type of. And within it, I think there's also a component of regret and saying, anything that I do from here on out, it doesn't matter because I've already offset my life path. I think really validating, hey, there was a reason maybe for the fact that you had to leave. Choose this college, the state college over this other college, because maybe you didn't have the means for that, but maybe you actually had a better perspective on this job and in working with people and in understanding that there definitely is kind of different ways of saying that there is a silver lining to some of these things and not just to say that, okay, that makes it all better, but to giving it a different perspective, I think, and reframing it to say, unfortunately, there are a lot of things that do shape us that we don't have control over. But what you do have control over right now is how you choose to sum that up and how you choose to move forward, right?

Erin: 8:16

A lot of those opportunities or, you know, that they might not see as opportunities are helping them in the present. So maybe they didn't get to go to the college that they wanted because they didn't have the funds and they had to work while they went to college. So that might be giving them an edge in the future or in the present. Then their other co workers or, because they have that different experience, that different working experience, working in different types of fields or careers before they know what they want to do or are, are where they're at.

Tanya: 8:47

Yeah, for sure. It's definitely, I think, something that may take a little while to, to sit with somebody and for them to see. I've had clients who just do not want to see that and feel like they have not been able to have the life that they want. So they maybe just feel they want to feel upset about it when they maybe thought that, okay, coming to therapy, maybe this would be kind of a magic solution of some sorts, you know, the magic wand that we're kind of. People think that we do have, but unfortunately it is about, I think learning to validate the things that you had to do when you had to do them and seeing what you can do now and being able to start to say, okay, I do have that perspective and I can move forward from here. I can take that and see what things are in my control and what things are not. Because. It's unfortunate, but a lot of things, a family we're born into, if we have a family, right, if we're that type of thing, the socioeconomic status, the way we get treated in childhood, those things can shape us very deeply to our core, but we don't have control over them. And that is something that for some people that can be absolutely validating and like, okay, I know that I couldn't really have done anything else about it. Some people have a tough time with that, and it may take a little bit more, which is, which is fine. I am wondering if. In terms of, and I do see this with some clients, but also another kind of bigger theme maybe on top of this is that some people, clients or otherwise, if they had really kind of dysfunctional, abusive, traumatic childhoods, and they start to, when they start to heal, it can be really, really painful. End. Almost a grief to accept that you've lost all that time and to say, okay, I know now what would be so powerful and so great for me and would have been so useful, but I, unfortunately, I can't go back in time and there's a grief in that there's a grief in that needs to be lost that time is lost and you can only time only goes in one direction. And That is really, really tough, I think, for people that experience that. Yeah.

Erin: 10:53

That's very common with people who had traumatic childhoods, is to, once you realize, because sometimes when you're in it, you don't realize that what you're going through is not, I was going to say normal, but acceptable, accepted, or, I guess normal is the right word, uh, of what should happen in a childhood. And then you might start grieving or realize you're grieving for the childhood that you did not have. And then that, in turn, can, you know, a lot of other work of helping the person to grieve or to be happy. understand that what happened and how to heal from that as well.

Tanya: 11:32

Yeah. And how to possibly reparent themselves and go through that process of saying, I'm that person that I needed, and that's the person that is going to help me from here on out. Not to say that's the only person that has to be in your life. I think. There certainly is a lot of grief in that. In saying that and all the experiences that you've had, you may see other people having, people have Christmas traditions or holiday traditions or family traditions and feeling like, I didn't have those, so I don't have great feelings towards them now. Or maybe they were laced with animosity and I don't want that in my life. And so that kind of maybe. Might cause some grief for their present feeling with their family. Yeah. Or you,

Erin: 12:19

you had family members or other things who may have had substance abuse or other mental health issues that showed up really heavily around the holidays that could also cause different feelings when holidays and celebrations come up. And again, you could be grieving what it would look like not to have. That dysfunction.

Tanya: 12:42

Right. Yeah. Like it's the, when you start to experience a level of normality in it, it can start to feel like, well, this doesn't, this may not fit here, or why couldn't I have had this? for my whole life and why didn't I have this and that's, that opens up a lot of wounds.

Erin: 12:59

Yeah, and it's kind of exciting when you're working with someone like that and then they realize like that they can start the healing and almost start Parenting themselves in a sense and almost given, giving themselves the things that they weren't able to give as a child. It's, hey, let's find hobbies, let's do stuff, let's, you know, Create those experiences that maybe you're sad and grieving that you never got to, but maybe you can do some of it as an adult.

Tanya: 13:25

Yeah, it is really powerful to see that and to witness that and to say, okay, you can see the younger versions of them come out and you see this new kind of person forming that becomes that solid structure, that adult form. There's a lot of work with internal family systems therapy. There's a lot of adults, so and so, you know, adult, wherever the person's name is adult. Jane, you know, child Jane, who the person was at different phases and trying to integrate how those can kind of come together and what went wrong and things like that. That certainly becomes kind of a, a measure, you know, maybe an approach for people that If that is their main problem, what they're coming to you for. I'm wondering at, at this point, are there any examples or anything that you would want to share? Anything that personally you've dealt with grief and things that maybe would not really be well known, they're kind of lesser known griefs in your own life?

Erin: 14:17

I've had a lot of the list and I think it took me my own work to realize that it was grief. You know, from losing jobs or moving and. The most recent, I think it would probably be considered like a compound group. My sister passed away, um, a few years ago, unexpectedly. And I had left my job that I was at for a while a little bit before that, then my sister passed away. And a couple months, like maybe two months, two or so months after that, I got diagnosed with breast cancer. I had started a private, like really started my private practice at the same time. So it was a lot of things at once and I wasn't able to fully grieve any of it. Because it just, life just kept happening. I quit my job, started my private practice. My sister passed away, got breast cancer. That takes a lot of time and energy, all the surgeries and everything else. And then I was still working. I was still running my private practice because I just had opened it I should know how to take care of myself, but I didn't because it was very Like when my sister died, I was very much worrying about my family or the logistics and all that. So I'm still, I'm a little slow and grieving everything. Actually, last night I was just having some feelings about my cancer and I was just letting myself. Feel it because I was like, Oh, and I didn't really let myself grieve after my surgery. And it was weird. It just showed up. And I was like, well, let me give myself this five minutes just to cry. And, but it just shows up and sometimes you don't expect it. It's not always the stages. It, it doesn't just go in order, but it's a constant, it's constant work. You know, again, as a therapist, I should know, but I think I didn't let myself grieve.

Tanya: 16:04

Yeah, it, it sounds like it comes back in different ways, in different forms, at different points that will hit you. Maybe, expectedly, different triggers or, or just things that you're kind of like, oh, that does remind me of that. And then it, it maybe brings back some of those feelings and that. That certainly is the process of grief. It kind of doesn't necessarily leave you for good, right? It's not just like you pour out the cup and all the grief is gone. Yeah. It's um, the grief changes. It has its own evolving at, at different points, at different phases in your life. Because you may, it may be through different milestones. You may not have particular people and you may not realize like, wait, this is something I'm getting married, but I don't have. This person here and you may think, well, I should be happy, but I'm actually not feeling some sort of way and it might be that you're remembering the grief from somebody passing away or an important person not being able to be there

Erin: 16:59

kind of thing.

Tanya: 16:59

I think with all these, it's really important to be able to. Say that there is a recognition, I think, that needs to be had when grief comes into the picture of saying it's something that maybe I need to talk to someone if things continue to bother me or I just feel the need to talk to a therapist. But also if you're seeing some of these running themes of maybe I'm starting to feel body aches around a certain anniversary, someone's passing, or other reminders, it's really important. Or if it's

Erin: 17:30

prolonged, if it's not just, if you notice, if these situations happened, or if it's with a loved one, and it's more than just a couple, if it's long weeks or months, it's probably turned to complicated things. And it's not just, Oh, I'm just grieving.

Tanya: 17:43

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it sounds like some of these themes we're talking about more known griefs with passing and things like that, but it's, it's the way that it gets processed. That's the lesser known grief is how it ends up and how we end up experiencing it.

Erin: 17:57

Yeah. A lot of times the lesser known griefs too, remind us of. The other griefs that we have, or we have, like, getting married, that's a really happy occasion, or moving into a new house, or doing different things, but if you, like, oh gosh, I wish my grandmother was here, I wish my mom was here, or, you know, someone like that could start bringing memories, or, you don't even realize that person is showing up, that situation, or that trauma, or whatever it is.

Tanya: 18:25

Yeah, it is definitely something that I think is not. well known and with friendships, the loss of friendships. We go throughout life, we're going to lose friends. Yeah. We're going to grow. We're going to evolve away from them. In some instances, some people are just like, hey, it was meant to be, that's the way it is, but I can still be kind of sad about it. It may not show up as grief. And then for other people, it may have been that this person Was with them during a very important time, like when someone passed away or when they were a big support, but not having that presence, that friendship is is kind of something that they may be grieving. So there's so many levels to it. It's very complex, and I think it just requires talking it out and seeing. What's going on, what's showing up in your life, in your feelings, and possible events around that. I do think that it is absolutely worth it to explore that, if that's something that you're experiencing. Yeah, so I think that was, that was good, and if anybody has anything to add, or anything that personal experiences, or just whatever that they would also like to add in.

Erin: 19:27

And this is probably a topic, too, that you might see Tanya and I talk about more in the future, where we might say, you know what, we're going to just talk about this part of it. Of course, we don't want our episodes to be really sad all the time. But it is life and it is therapy. So you might see us talk a little bit more about some of this in the future.

Tanya: 19:47

Yeah. For sure. And also, if you have any recommendations for any topics or anything like that, certainly add that in. Yeah. Please. Definitely. Yeah. Let's, so let's sign off here and let's remember to stay wicked and keep your mind well. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram. We are Wicked Psychotherapists at the Wicked Psychotherapists at Instagram. And then, you know, find us on your, your favorite. Podcast platform, Spotify, Apple, we're on

20:17

them. I don't know.