Exploring Mental Health Trends and Therapy Dynamics

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Tanya and Erin delve into mental health trends and the dynamics of therapy, highlighting the importance of mental health awareness. 

 They discuss the rise in self-diagnosis, the impact of social media, generational differences in therapy, and the benefits of telehealth. 

 They also share personal insights into the therapist-client relationship, the value of cultural and personal expressions in therapy sessions, and end with discussing the importance of getting professional help over relying solely on online resources. 

Additionally, they highlight NAMI's role in providing support and resources for mental health. 

 Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of today's mental health landscape from the perspective of seasoned psychotherapists.

Connect with us!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wickedpsychotherapists/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Wickedpodcasts/

Linktre.ee : https://linktr.ee/thewickedpsychotherapists

Website : https://www.wickedpsychotherapists.com

Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

Tanya: 0:36

this is Tanya.

Erin: 0:37

This is Erin, and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

Tanya: 0:40

Yes, welcome. So we are going to be discussing something very apropos very appropriate for today mental health awareness, because mental health awareness is in the month of May officially, and that's when this episode will be out. Uh,

Erin: 0:56

so we

Tanya: 0:57

thought that we would focus on some trends, some topics, some stigmas and just some things that we're seeing, different takes on it. for 2024 and maybe, you know, 2023 kind of thing. But this is definitely an important conversation, not only because of the stigma of mental health, but also because of information being appropriate and maybe not so appropriate, right. And understanding kind of the difference between the two. So, uh, the first thing I thought we would just kind of dive into it, uh, would be the different trends that we might be seeing in mental health, or things that you might be seeing patterns of, things that you're hearing a lot, just in your practice, or maybe just in the news, out in the ethersphere, like, ethosphere? Ether?

Erin: 1:42

Ether? Etho? Ether? I don't know.

Tanya: 1:44

Ether. Out in the ether. Okay. I said etherspheres. Just made up a word there. Out in the ether. That, you know, uh, just as a practitioner and as a person who has this awareness as an expert in mental health. What are you seeing anything that you find interesting? Things that, you know, are just appearing everywhere?

Erin: 2:03

In the ethersphere? Laughter.

Tanya: 2:06

I was just taking a drink, so yeah.

Erin: 2:08

So, yeah, I'm, I guess I've been noticing that there's a lot of, you know, more uptick. Still, I'm still seeing a lot of the people coming in wondering if they have ADHD or not. And it seems like an increase of anxiety. I haven't really noticed a lot of different trends. with people watching things lately, but just mostly wondering about ADHD still. That seems to come up a lot.

Tanya: 2:39

Are they, are you finding that they're looking for like the diagnosis of it or just like, yeah,

Erin: 2:44

diagnosis or they're thinking they have it or they've heard somebody talking about it. So it sounds like them. It's, you know, which is, A little, you know, which it's, it can be a little stressful or annoying, I don't want to say annoying, but if somebody doesn't really have something and then they're really sure that this is what they have, but it could be something else because a lot of the symptoms of ADHD, it could be post trauma. It could be. You know Anxiety, it could be showing, you know, you could be tired it could you know, like there's a lot of things that can make you be distracted or Yeah,

Tanya: 3:19

yeah. So so when you are discussing that there's a feeling of No, this is me. This is i'm pretty sure this is you know, what my diagnosis is It's kind of like a having to broaden the conversation for you on your part.

Erin: 3:32

Yeah, okay

Tanya: 3:33

Okay, yeah, that's interesting. I have been seeing not too much of that, but I've been personally seeing a lot of people who believe they, or like we'll mention borderline personality disorder, uh, which as we know, is something that is I feel complicated to diagnose and depending on how long you have known this person, how much of an accurate or inaccurate historian the person is when you kind of take the history and you know, the biopsychosocial. It can be really tough to determine but I do feel and I'm going to age myself. Or just, you know, be able to, you're going to indicate, you're going to see how technologically disinclined I am. I don't go on the Tik TOK. Okay. And but I do, I have heard mention of, well, I saw this Tik TOK video, I saw this and I feel like I have this. And I really want to stress that's okay to bring to your therapist. You know, it's not it's not so, you know, to open up, if you kind of are having this this concern. But if before you didn't really have any concerns about yourself, you weren't really, you know, worried about things. And then you saw this TikTok video and you think you have this huge thing that people say, Oh, this is, might be why you don't fit in anywhere. There's a lot to that. There's a lot of conversation to that, uh, to be able to And a personality disorder is a lifelong thing that you need to be working on intensely. It is not a small diagnosis. Not like there's any small diagnosis, but it's not something that is, this is, it infused all throughout your personality. So it's, you know, it's very tough to determine that you want to be very careful with that. And I do have I personally see some clients and EAP. Which is short term, right? And then for me it is. And then I also have a private practice. So when I'm seeing it in the private practice, that is something we can look towards. We can discuss in the EAP program. That's something I may discuss and say, you know, you might want to have a more, like a longer term therapist for that because EAP is typically geared towards kind of short term goal oriented issues. That's not always the referral that we get but that is something that kind of has to be worked through. So I do just kind of want to make that clear because that can be confusing, I think, to people, that if you're in an EAP program, you know, some of those things that the therapist may it's not like traditional therapy where you kind of can go on and on. You only have a set amount of sessions and you're typically working towards more of a goal. I don't know if that's your experience with EAP. Okay, yeah. And that's kind of, so that can be difficult to establish a personality disorder because you need a lot of time to diagnose that. So I'm finding that somewhat problematic because I think just the understanding of that for people because of what You know, maybe through Tik Tok or other, or just kind of what they've heard about therapy, quote unquote therapy. They just kind of assume the whole umbrella is just, you know, you diagnose me, you, you establish these, you know, these this understanding of who I am and. It kind of just all comes out. There can be different avenues towards that, you know, different referrals, different points. Just a doctor, like, you know, if you go to like a primary care physician, you may get a referral to a gastroenterologist because you're having stomach issues and they can't pinpoint it right there. You know, there's going to be more of a specialist in EAP programs. If you, if there's kind of something that's really big, a question being asked like that More than likely, that's not going to be the exploration. You're going to be, you know, referred outwards. So that can be difficult for me, for the, for my EAP clients. But I am hearing a lot of misinformation about borderline symptoms that, you know, when listed generally any symptoms you can kind of make apply to you. Again, diagnosis is not the same thing. I'm just trying to say that probably self diagnosis through TikTok is still a trend, a phenomena that I'm seeing. That's, that was my, my end all be all, and again, I know we said that promotes conversation, but just to be open to that and understanding that it's not necessarily all accurate when you Right. Seek out mental health care. Yeah,

Erin: 7:54

I mean, like, they always say like, you know, it used to be the don't go on WebMD, don't Right. Don't look stuff on Google. Now. It's now we have to feel like don't trust people that are making TikTok videos that we don't know what their background is and also. Just like anything, if you're looking for the, any diagnosis, you're gonna feel like that's you, unless the specialist is diagnosing you.

Tanya: 8:19

Right, right, And I, I really, you know, I understand that it is absolutely something to spark a conversation, but to just keep that in mind, that perspective in mind, that's all we're saying. And speaking of that, pivoting into kind of generational you know, trends or anything like that. Are you seeing any kind of differences with, like, older generations coming to, like, I guess it would be Gen X baby boomers coming to therapy more, or you know, more Gen Z slash millennials, you know, kind of, appearing more? Like, what's your experience with that, appearing to therapy? I don't know,

Erin: 8:58

I mean, I guess, I guess I am having a lot of, all the generations I feel kind of sad that Gen X is an older generation, so now I'm feeling.

Tanya: 9:11

Millennial is kind of the older one too, so that makes you feel even worse.

Erin: 9:16

I know. But yeah, I actually have, I have a couple in every single, every generation, like millennial. I, because I think I start seeing clients like at age like 23, 24. Those are usually the, but I, most of my clients are probably in their thirties or forties right now. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I feel like I tend to So whatever generation that is, that's millennial?

Tanya: 9:41

That's probably, you know, Yeah, probably like millennial and Y or whatever they call it, yeah. Yeah I tend to, I feel like now I have more in their, like, mid twenties, maybe late twenties, so maybe kind of more towards the Gen Z. But I definitely have some Millennials, and I am seeing an uptick in kind of the older generations, I'm putting, using air quotes, you know, kind of like the older Millennials, or the Gen Xers, or even some Baby Boomers, I'm seeing. And I feel like that's just been over the past like year, maybe year and a half or so. I've personally just been seeing that. And I am curious, do you find your, and I don't know if you want to, if you want to speak to this, you know, or not. I will, but I'll give you the chance first. So do you find the experience different with different generations?

Erin: 10:28

Yeah, I do, because I guess it also depends on what's bringing them into therapy you know, if, you know, like, let's say they have a diagnosis of something and they used to go to therapy, that might look different than somebody that's brand new to therapy and is just trying to figure out things. But I like, I guess I like having the mix of the different generations, because not everybody is coming for a diagnosis or. Coming because they had one in the past, but it does seem like the older generations, you know, the Baby Boomers or Gen X might have a different appreciation for therapy because maybe in the past they were forced to go to therapy or therapy looked different in the 80s and 90s than it does now. And even most therapists are a little more open and their training is a little different or Laws and ethics are different than it was then when they might have been forced to go to therapy and you know, or It just might feel different and also the people in the younger generations. It's Mental health has probably been something that's Openly been talked about for most of their life because several decades now It hasn't had Hopefully hasn't had as the same stigma as oh, I'm gonna go see my shrink. Oh, you're crazy Let's you know, so it does seem like it's more it's talked about you see it approached differently in movies and shows And we're you know in different parts of mainstream where I know I grew up It was like The mental health was what about Bob and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? Those were, Yes, very extreme. It's like, that was my go to and then we talked before, then it was like Heathers and Girl Interrupted. So there wasn't really a lot of, you know, and then Fight Club. So it wasn't a lot of really, like, people who are struggling with mental health stuff. It wasn't really like, oh yeah. It And then there's that like recently I saw it, you know, this is probably a couple years ago, but crazy ex girlfriend It is great. If you haven't seen it, it's about it's musical It's I can't remember the actress's name, but she's really good and It really is a really great, almost realistic point of how she discovers that she has borderline personality disorder. And I really love it because She's like making these, you know, looking at it. It's like, oh my gosh, what is wrong with this woman? She's a stalker. She's changing her whole life to find this boyfriend that she used to like and then she's doing this and that and she's like arguing with friends, having a lot of Really unhealthy things happening until you find out at the end that she has borderline personality disorder But then they go to therapy and she's getting the right type of treatment. It's really well done and the person the Actress who wrote it She actually has mental health issues and she wanted to put it into the forefront in a different way Yeah, it was really and that was the first time I've seen Like something such as borderline personality disorder In that realm where you're like, oh my gosh, this is so relatable. I could have this. This is portrayed Yeah, it's way different because going back to girl interrupted. She had borderline personality disorder

Tanya: 13:51

And it's just treated locked

Erin: 13:53

up and impatient. Yeah, and it was like, you know, she's You're really like wow, this girl is sick so like something like she has to be in a psych ward and But it's really different than the character in Crazy ex girlfriend.

Tanya: 14:08

Right. Yeah, you can see the points of origin, you can see the humanity in that. And you can see okay, this person, you know, maybe genuinely did not recognize these patterns in themselves. And when they did, then they were like, okay, let's You know, let's go to therapy. Let's take care of this. Right. I did see I saw I think a couple of seasons and I think there was some time in between another season and I kind of lost it past that But I would like to I definitely say they're

Erin: 14:34

To watch it like some of it. You're like, okay enough of the singing or the sex or whatever is happening, but it's But it is but I think it's all like it's the whole arc Okay So you could, you know, towards the end when it, the diagnosis happens, and I was really impressed with the therapy too, because a lot of times when things are portrayed, it's not realistic, or they don't have the real treatment things, or they just say therapy, or they put you in a mental institution, but this is like, you know, really, Talking in the difficulty and so you had mentioned into

Tanya: 15:11

it

Erin: 15:12

Yeah, like really getting into the meat of it and you'd mentioned like people are getting their diagnoses on Tick tock for this and for other things and There's a lot more to it than just I'm maybe spending a lot of money, or I'm dating a lot of people, or I'm, or I like my friend one day, then I don't like my friend. Or you know, like there's a lot more to it than just whatever people might be posting in 50, 50 seconds.

Tanya: 15:38

Right, right. There's a lot more context I think that needs to be explored from it and I think that's just, you know, if you are able to get therapy or whatever help, you know, is helpful in that, 50 seconds worth of anything saying, is this you? That can apply to a lot of people who feel like they have something, but they don't know how to talk about it or they want to be, you know, how to talk about it. Identified for these traits that maybe are internal and external and that it may or may not be even mental health. Right? So, uh, you know, just something to keep in mind. But yeah, I, that's really cool that you know, found a really great representation of that. And it makes me want to watch that. And for everyone out there, it's a great recommendation. It is. It's really good.

Erin: 16:20

I mean, I was It's funny. It has like if you like musicals that make no sense, you know, like it's I do. Yeah, it's just Cuz it doesn't make it. It's like she just breaks out into song in Anytime but like some of them are just really funny and some are just like what the heck but again, it's all the whole process

Tanya: 16:41

Yeah, and actually I do, it's so funny because I do remember watching that, and I myself was kind of wondering about some dynamics in my family, and I was, it was helping me to kind of place it into scenarios and kind of realize, oh, that's what That's why they were doing that, you know, and to understand that. Yeah. So I found that pretty helpful as well. Even though I, and I'm really looking forward to finishing this season and seeing the therapy part of it. I didn't even actually see that. Because

Erin: 17:09

they even talk about, they even go into the family, the relationship with her mother and some possible trauma she might've had as a kid. And that's also, like you had mentioned, like the personality disorders, a lot of it is stem from, it's not just. You know, like, well, what may have happened biologically, it's also could be stemmed from some trauma that may have happened, too.

Tanya: 17:31

Yeah, absolutely, And I, I also do want to, and I know I'm going to sound like a meme here, but I really want to stress with if, you know, you are exploring and finding that personality disorder is really something that, you know, maybe that you have a diagnosis and it really is affecting multiple facets of your life, of course, there is an origin point, of course, there is something that is, you know, not You didn't ask for this. You weren't, you know, you don't, nobody wants a personality disorder. It is a responsibility to be aware and to get help for that because it, unfortunately, it does affect a lot of not only, you know, yourself, your own interactions, it affects everything around you. And once you start to get that help, things will start to align and make more sense. So I just really want to Put that out there that, you know, it's not that people when they're talking about borderline people, I'm hoping that people are not saying you know, that there's a stigma that it's like, oh, I don't want to work with them and, you know, this and that people hear. I think that the level of difficulty and time invested in treatment is very high. However I do think it is very worthy and it is very understandable there are definitely practitioners that are out there that, you know, are able to work with that. You just have to be able to research and find the right ones, which is your responsibility if you want to make things right. Just like if you have a medical condition, if you choose to, you know, if you're aware of it. you choose to ignore it, it's not going to get any better. So that's just my little PSA. I just want to say that it's not necessarily something that is your fault, just like, you know, all the things that we carry, but it is something that we have to manage, right? So, you know, with that I do think that, you know, with the different generations, I think you know, I definitely with the younger generation that I see, they have the instant vocabulary. I mean, they have it down. It is interwoven in their conversation. There's, they don't need me to define anything. Like they could probably define it better than me. Because like you said, they grew up with it, but the older generations I find are kind of, you know, I'm really impressed with how Open there, because like you said, they may have had a different exposure and understanding of therapy. in, you know, while growing up. And so to be open to it at this point and to understand it at this point kind of takes some courage, you know, to say, okay I'm gonna, I'm gonna work on this. And I'm finding very impressive levels of understanding even in, you know, kind of the quote unquote older generations, right. It's really, you know, I do think mental health being in the vocabulary has had its benefits. For sure. So, you know, in terms of, you know, things like telehealth and the way that therapy is delivered, there's text therapy, things like that. We have all different forms to meet all different needs for people. Do you have any thoughts about kind of, you know, if it's here to stay what your opinion of that is? Uh, that you want to share, anything like that?

Erin: 20:33

Well, I'm really glad that there is such a thing as telehealth and online therapy or,

no one: 20:39

you know, I,

Erin: 20:40

you know, for instance, used online medical the other day for myself, you know, like, which I love it. I love that I could just contact like Teladoc or something like that instead of going somewhere. And I love that I can offer something like that for my clients where They don't have to, what I love, you know, even for the clients who don't work from their own homes, but before it, you know, it's like they have to figure out, okay, I'm gonna have an hour appointment. It's, you know, like say it's 20 minutes from my work or 20 minutes from home, then it's, so one hour appointment could be like a two hour or two and a half hour event for the person. So now it can be, well, I'm just going to go drive to a parking lot of somebody's home, or go in my room if I'm at home, or lock myself in my office if I'm at work, and just take that 50 minutes or 60 minutes. And it feels, I actually feel like therapy has become deeper and Like, I feel like we're able to reach different points in therapy quicker online than in person for the most part. And I think, I don't know if it's because they're comfortable that they're with their cat or their dog or they're sitting on their cat couch wrapped in a blanket or, you know, what it is. But I do feel like there is a different level of intimacy. Yes, I'm not able to give my client a hug if they want, but I do feel that they're, I don't, I just feel like for the most part most of my clients, I do feel like we are reaching a different level in therapy by doing it telehealth. And There's more consistency, that for sure. I noticed I have less cancellations. I do still have people cancel, but I feel like there's less cancellation. Like there's less reason, like I just mentioned with, uh, not having to worry about work or taking time off or traffic or car broken down, or even if they're sick, unless they're lost their voice or something. They still most of the time still come.

Tanya: 22:34

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, so definitely some very valid points for telehealth to stay and with its efficacy And actually improved connection you're saying

Erin: 22:45

Yeah, and yeah, and I do notice I mean I do still get clients when new clients who are like Won't, you know, who want to have somebody who's in person. And so I will, you know, refer them out to somebody else if they're looking for somebody in person. But I usually, that's usually my first five second spiel when I'm talking to a new person, you know, make sure they know that I'm 100 percent online.

Tanya: 23:07

Right. Right. And yeah, I agree. I think it's a very valid form. I myself as a practitioner, I find I find telehealth much more. Connecting, I feel personally more at ease in my own environment, and I feel like I can just focus on therapy. Whereas when I was in office, I am a person who gets very distracted by small talk, by the noises in the office. You know, focus, you know, things that, it just is, it's hard for me to feel comfortable and then be able to focus on a task in office. So yeah, telehealth, it is absolutely just for me as a provider. I found that to be so much better in terms of being able to deliver, uh, services. But also for clients, yeah, like you said, I mean, there's, to me, it seems like nothing but benefits. The only thing that can be difficult is maybe sometimes I will share like a book or, you know, something that I have in my office. I like to do that. Or like kind of little.

Erin: 24:03

I do too.

Tanya: 24:04

You know, little things that you just have that are like therapeutic tools and stuff like that. Like, oh, hey, you know, why don't you try this kind of thing and, you know, can bring it back to me. Or maybe you just kind of gift it over, you know, kind of thing. You know, or like a notebook. Some people don't even have like a notebook for like a journal to be like, Oh, I have an extra one. You know, I, I miss that. You know, I do

Erin: 24:20

too. I used to, that was always something I liked to do. I always had in one of my cabinets, I would go to like Ross or wherever and just buy like all that. Journals, not all, you know, I'd always have like a bunch of journals. Love those. And so I would, I'd always give like a new client, a journal and a pen. Yeah. You know, like that's nice. And I used to have like a little tiny fridge with snacks and drinks and so Oh, that's cool. Cool. It was, yeah. I do miss that'cause I like that connection, but I do not miss having my next door neighbor who my next door office suite. With her nasty candle and oh Yeah, I don't miss that stuff about sharing having an office space, but I do miss like the connections I miss like seeing what seeing my clients whole outfit and seeing like how they're doing and Yeah, and just being able to give them a book Yeah Cuz I always had a bookshelf full of books and there were times when I'm like, you know what? Let me just copy this page out or let me just give him this whole book and know that I'm not going to get it back because that's okay.

Tanya: 25:20

Yeah, I really love that. And there's something different about like sending it through the mail. It feels weird and invasive to me rather than handing it, you know what I mean? So it's just kind of not the same. So, you know, digital templates or whatever, I guess, have to just kind of do, which I don't love.

Erin: 25:35

I have mailed a couple. Like with permission. I'm like, is it okay? Is that I really want to give this book to you? So I have done that to one or two clients and that's rare now, but I usually I will just say like, hey, why don't you look up this book or here's these worksheets if I, you know, I hardly ever do worksheets, but sometimes it is helpful, but I have mailed a client a book. I had an extra copy and it was something I thought they might like.

Tanya: 26:01

That's nice. That's really nice. I think they probably really appreciated that. I know that's a nice thing to, to do. I personally just don't want to get into the practice of it just because it just feels like it would just kind of never, it would just kind of never end. I have mailed, I think maybe one or two things At this person's request and they had financial hardships, you know, so I had no problem doing that but I don't it's just different than in person. It is it just feels

Erin: 26:25

yeah, it feels different when you're in person You're like, oh, yeah, let me just grab this book from behind my bookshelf. And oh, yeah I've I read this a year ago or so, you know, you'll like it, you know return it if you can if not, don't worry You know because most of the time, I'm like, I'll never see that book again. But, I used to be upset when I first became a therapist, but then I realized, like, All right, if I'm going to give it to them, just realize you're not going to get it back. Assume

Tanya: 26:51

it's going to, it's just theirs. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah, and I think we're fine with that, you know, like, right? Like, it's yeah, you know, at first it's kind of hard because it's tough, you know, you pay some good money for those and you really get attached to some of those books, you know, but it's well, you know, I've gotten what I need from it, let's give it to someone else. Right. But yeah, I think that. Those are some really good points, you know, that it, and like you said, they can be in the comfort of their own home. They could be in their pajamas. I've had people like just kind of waking up that they're like, I'm getting this in before I go to work kind of thing. That's really great because it's like, okay, they may not have even shown up, like, because they maybe just woke up and they wouldn't have made it in time if it were in person, but they're getting it in and you're, you know, it's a great thing. Good session. You feel a good connection. And yeah, I don't know. I love telehealth to me. It's not I don't feel like I need that in person because personally to me, I feel more comfortable in my own space. And I think The people i'm seeing obviously do too, you know for the most

Erin: 27:49

part Yeah, I mean

Tanya: 27:50

I do

Erin: 27:51

notice like I do shift a lot now too because i'm always like maybe I need not to have A chair that rocks but But I do notice like when I Am in person more I think I shift even more because I'm like, oh should I have my legs completely down on the ground? Should I cross my leg? Should I do this? Should I do that? Is my shirt? Should I pull my shirt down? Is it like so these are very things like should I have my hands just on the armrest? Should I have one arm? Should I lean more? Like these are things that I think In microseconds throughout the session or, you know, like, or different sessions where I notice I don't do that, where, yeah, I might shift a little bit because yeah, it does get uncomfortable sometimes just sit in for an hour, but. I notice I'm probably, like, less focused on myself because, you know, we're human, and it's, Right. You're, it's, I don't want to say it's a show, but it is, therapy is like you're doing, you're, it's like a sales thing, it's like you're there to help them, but you're also, you want to be perfect, presentable, and you want to look a certain way for the client.

Tanya: 28:51

Yeah, to provide services, there has to be a look and a feel to it, and to me, I feel like I can better control this square as opposed to an entire office. That's, it's too overwhelming for me. It just is, it always has been, and so for me, this was, it was a godsend for me, personally, and for, I think, a lot of clients.

Erin: 29:07

Like, it's like just this little square of your life.

Tanya: 29:12

Yeah, like, that's all I have to. And, like, I'm okay with the fact that, you know, my, we were talking about my background is crooked. Like, okay, that's an easy fix, you know. I don't get so overwhelmed with that. Although, it's starting to really bother me. But, I mean, like, you know, it's not, like, I can just, you know, I don't even have to worry about if I'm wearing pajama pants. Which I am and you know, it's very simple, you know I don't really have to worry about what I do with my hands because I do a lot of Gesturing and stuff like that. I can kind of keep that out of the square You know kind of thing

Erin: 29:40

or you can put it in the square if you want

Tanya: 29:42

Yeah, like if it's you know, it's to me it feels more in my control. It's not I get overwhelmed Yeah, that's

Erin: 29:48

interesting. You mentioned the hands because I remember when we were in school. We had one professor Who was such a pain in the ass. Who Who I am. Shall not be named. You know, I'm Irish and Italian. Mostly Irish. But, like, I, my mom was a big hand talker. So, I talk with my hands. A lot. So I remember this one professor, when we were, we had to like practice therapy and we're being recorded and all this, I kept getting reprimanded. Like I, put your hands on your lap, put, you know, like you must, you know, like it's so unprofessional if you talk with your hands, if you do this, and I was like, oh my god, I can't even talk. I can't, you know, then so this, I'm like, yeah, my anxiety is now at a thousand. Points, you know, or whatever percentage, but, and I was like that for a while. I was like, okay, oh wait, I'm moving my hands. Like I remember when I first went out on my own and I was like, okay, what am I? I can't move my hands. I'll look weird. They'll just be focused on my hands. But then as I started to become in my own, as the years went on, I was like, Let me just be myself. And, you know, this is, I do talk with my hands and I express myself and I think, you know, even with telehealth, I'm sure they're fine if they see like a little hand up in the air every once in a while, because that's how I talk.

Tanya: 31:03

I think it's very contextual. I think if you have a person who is maybe very reactive, and they're maybe just like recovering from something, And you're aware of that, like in person, you know, you probably don't want to be like, you know, doing that or whatever, right? Like it, and even then I'm still not sure. It depends on the person, like, you know, kind of how they grew up, what their gestures are. But yeah I really I lean towards that side too. Be yourself. That's the way you're going to be most effective. But I can understand, you know, someone saying like, Oh, if somebody is very reactive or if they're, you know, had like a very traumatic event happening, like I know with kids and with, you know, play therapy, which is what I used to do, you know, being very aware of like the objects in the room, this, the space, you know, kind of the closeness, things like that is very much a part of You know, being aware, right. In terms of, you know, with that usage and like movement and things like that. But, you know, I think with an adult it's your best judgment. And I do not think it's a hard and fast rule to just be like, oh, you can't use your hands. Yeah. And I actually think that's kind of weird.

Erin: 32:07

It, I, yeah. I thought it was well, and of course in school you're not sure what, you know, you just wanna pass head, but Yeah. But yeah, it's not like my hand gestures that I do, it's not like I'm making. fist hand gestures, or I'm going at the person with my hand gestures, they're usually just contained in my, you know, in my little space.

Tanya: 32:27

Yeah, and it's like you said, it's cultural, you know, it is like your Italian and Irish, you know, heritage, you know, if You've had that. That's kind of a part of you. That's a hard thing to, to change because that is a manner of expression, you know, it's, that's our first expression is play and movement, right? You know, so that's kind of can become people's extension to their speech. You know, I've talked about how I've had selective mutism for me. Gestures were, you know, I was kind of used to always adding that as an adjunct because I didn't want to speak, you know, very hard for me to speak. And so that was like, that's very important to me. And I'm not going to have that. Professor told me that I'm not going to use that. You know, that's ridiculous. And it sounds like you, you said the same thing, you know, like it's, there's different contexts and you have to take people into account and that includes the provider as well. It's not just about, you know, it's about the dynamic. So, you know, I think that's maybe an outdated way of, and I also think that it's very culturally flattened. Can I say, to say that you can't have gestures, I think that's a very like narrow perspective. Yeah, because there are a lot of

Erin: 33:32

cultures that use their hands or talk with their hands or even expressive with their face. And so it's very, it would be very difficult to be a therapist robot or just to be exactly what, just like when we were in school, it's like, you can't just follow one theorist or one theory exactly. Because it's so antiquated and things change and things evolve and you learn your own method and what you like and who you like and how you want to work with your clients and just the same with like Yeah, I'm gonna sometimes Client could tell how I'm feeling on my face Sometimes I might want to cry when I'm hearing something really sad or I'm good I might laugh with them or I don't know You know, I'm human.

Tanya: 34:16

Yeah it's funny because I think the way that our school kind of, for the most part, represented that. I think there were some professors that could see the grayscale in between that, but some of these, like, kind of, you know, you shouldn't emote because then you're projecting your own stuff onto people. But there's also, like, a bonding. as well. I think that sometimes those black and white rules that maybe were at times presented to us, depending on the professor and the class are, I don't know, to me, I was like, that never really felt right. And it kind of requires you to practice a lot. In therapy to kind of to know and to understand that I don't think there can be a hard and fast rule in those things. I mean, there are, of course, some things like, you know, are very black and white, like, you know, ethics, you don't socialize with, you know, clients and you don't like they're not your friends, like things like that. But yeah, but, you know, the gestures and how you kind of formulate that rapport, I think can be very different depending on the location. The person, the cultures the type of therapy the, you know, the age of the client you wrote, like a lot of things are so dependent on that. Cause

Erin: 35:24

sometimes there are some clients that are, you know, almost the same age. They like the same things as you, they, you know, like, so it's like, yeah, we're gonna, maybe we'll have like a little conversation after therapy ends. I do that sometimes after we're scheduled on the next thing, we'll be like, Oh, which, what movie did you watch? Oh where'd you do this? You know, like, you know, what did you do? Yeah. You want a human element to it. Yeah,

Tanya: 35:44

and I gotta say when I first started out, I was very afraid and robotic and I was Oh, I have to kind of stick to this. And I just remember thinking this just doesn't, this doesn't work. Like I'm not forming this rapport. That is like, that's what they say is the most essential part of therapy is having that, you know? And so that really does have to be looked at. And it is true.

Erin: 36:06

I think all therapists probably feel like they wish they could contact the clients that they saw the first year or so when they were a therapist, a new, a newbie and be like, I am sorry. I'm not that person anymore. I, yes, I'm back to me and I know what I'm doing.

Tanya: 36:23

I've evolved into Tanya therapist or therapist, you know, like I've made that kind of, you know, those joined in a nice, uh, uniform way, you know? Yeah. I totally, so anyone listening, if you recognize me, I, that's the thing.

Erin: 36:36

Same. Sorry. Sorry.

Tanya: 36:39

Yeah, they kind of throw us in there and they don't.

Erin: 36:42

Yeah, the first, first of all, and plus we're just getting our hours the first couple years. So it's just, we're just newbies and figuring it out and

Tanya: 36:49

Yeah, so, you know, that is, I know we kind of went off on, you know, kind of the therapy and session, but that is mental health. That is. You know, that is like trends and stuff like that. But you know, I did want to also discuss before we kind of wrap up here NAMI, which is the National Alliance for Mental Illness. It's one of the largest grassroots started out as a grassroots organization. They do advocacy education for mental health. They're a great site. It's just N A M I if you want to look them up and you know, have that. That resource for like events or for education, things like that. They have awesome,

Erin: 37:23

I've had a lot of, quite a few clients and clients families go, they have like really awesome, I think they offer throughout the year, like, because they have different chapters, local chapters, they have state chapters, national, but where they'll do, Online classes, in person classes for the family member that might have mental illness. So then you have friends or, you know, like you, you have different people that you can talk to that might understand what you're going through and they have it in different things. So maybe they might have a group for people who have depression or people who have anxiety or just other things, or they have different activities. And then for the family ones, which is really awesome too, like it, there's more of a psychoeducation And also a support group. So it's just a really, it's a really great organization and they do walks throughout the year. They do different different fundraising, but their website is really. In depth. Yeah, it's a really great, I mean, I am a really big fan of them. They're they're and it's free, and it's free for people.

Tanya: 38:27

Yeah that's the really important thing. And it was started actually by you know, groups of families who had people in their family with mental illness. Like, that was kind of what they wanted to get help with because they noticed a gap there. And it has come so far, it's a grassroots movement. Like, it, it has beginnings as grassroots, just like families coming together and making all of this. And it is huge. It's national now. Like, that's, you know, that's just so amazing to me. I mean, it's just, yeah.

Erin: 38:52

And it's, and again, being Mental Health Awareness Month, it's just, that is something too. Maybe see, you know, whether you might know somebody who has a mental health issue or an illness or you're curious or you want to volunteer.

Tanya: 39:08

Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, if it's affecting you and you know, you understand, trying to understand that this person is also struggling, but it also you know, there's struggles with your interactions with this person, family member, whoever it is. I myself, I've done a walk with friends. I think it was a suicide prevention walk. And I've also gotten resources. You know, with dealing with family members you know, that I've found really helpful, really insightful.

Erin: 39:36

Yeah, I've taught, I've, I'm on their newsletter and I'm always like, I want to volunteer. I just haven't found time to do it, but I have given their information out a lot to different clients just to, for them to do their own research or to give it to a family member. And yeah, if it's, yeah, it's a, that's a really good point to bring up though, Tanya, like just, uh, That it's out there.

Tanya: 39:57

Yeah, absolutely. So if you want to check it out, if you plug it into Google, N A M I or National Alliance. I think it's org. I think

Erin: 40:05

it's a org. org.

Tanya: 40:07

Yeah, I believe it is. Yeah, it is. It's NAMI. org. And there's an about, about who we are kind of section, which explains where they came from. It's really amazing. I mean, if you're interested in that, you know. But yeah there's events you can, you know, like Erin was saying, local chapters, things that you can do if you're interested, or if you need help because you know, are having, know someone who is struggling with mental illness. If you yourself are and need resources and need help it's just, it's all there. It's really great.

Erin: 40:32

And a lot of it's computerized, but they're also really good. Like if you go there, if there's a local chapter you can go, they'll have like actual handouts. They, you know, there's, you know, I can't say enough good things about them.

Tanya: 40:45

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that's something that definitely we want to highlight. And they'll probably be doing, they do a lot of events, especially around May, but they do them year round. Right. So, you know, keep an eye out or go check that out if you want to just, if you want information, you want to volunteer, whatever, all of the above. It's really great. So, yeah, is there anything else that we Haven't talked about I know there's I mean we could go on and on this is like, you know so much But I guess we have to have a cutting point I mean, I

Erin: 41:12

guess maybe even like if people have you know We always say this if there's anything else that we miss So if there's any mental health trends that you're like, yeah you talked a little bit about ADHD and you talked a little bit about borderline, but I'm really seeing this I'm really curious about this. I haven't heard seen you to talk about this or that. Let us know because You We, we try to stay up and we do hear what our clients are talking about, but there might be something else that you're like, wow, you know, like I do, I've really noticed in, you know, you know, this phobia or, you know, this new anxiety is coming up or people are talking about this or that. Let us know because, you know, we're always looking for different show topics and You know, we want to our goal is, you know, to be entertaining, but also to be helpful.

Tanya: 42:01

Yeah. Kind of bring up a little bit of, you know, infusing a little bit of our expertise, but also who we are in it. You know, we're kind of, we talk casually. We're not getting so in depth, but we would, you know, just like to. To bring it up for awareness but with accurate awareness. Right. It's kind of our goal.

Erin: 42:17

Yeah, and like how Tanya mentioned earlier, like you want it more than 50 seconds, you know, like it's, you know, that's, you know, like that's, I say 50 seconds because that's about the size, you know, the length of a reel so it's like really, You can't do too much. I just, you know, like, you can't really get too much information in that span of time.

Tanya: 42:35

Yeah don't let that be your entire knowledge base, you know, if it's something that sparks an awareness, fine, but, you know, just realize there is, you know, there's so many other components, research, expertise, specialty, things that you want to invest in outside of that.

Erin: 42:50

Right.

Tanya: 42:50

Because it's a very serious thing. It's not just a, Oh, we, you know, we meet you and we instantly know what you are. You know, it's kind of, it involves a lot more than that. But yeah, so we, we hope you enjoyed this. Like Erin said, if you have any suggestions, even outside of, you know, mental health or anything that you see, you want us to cover, please feel free to, uh, send us recommendations, messages. Any

Erin: 43:12

shows, you know, we love shows and movies. So if there's any. Show too that you're like, oh, wait a minute, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, yeah, for sure.

Tanya: 43:21

Yeah but don't forget to follow us on instagram at wicked psychotherapists Or on facebook. We are the wicked psychotherapists Subscribe and follow everywhere you can find podcasts, we're on all of it. Leave us a review. Give us five stars if you can give us five stars. We put in effort. So if you don't, if you can't, just don't even bother. Just give us five stars. Yeah. Give us a review. It really helps us out. It does. To get more listeners and everything. And and don't forget, stay wicked.

Erin: 43:50

And keep your mind well. Yes. See you next week. Yeah. Have a great day. Bye. Bye.

Tanya: 43:58

guys. Bye.

44:01

We Wish You a Merry Christmas It's easy. It's not difficult.