Unwrapping Christmas Memories: Navigating Family Dynamics and Traditions

Uncover the nuances of the holiday season in our latest episode, "Unwrapping Christmas Memories: Navigating Family Dynamics and Traditions." 

 Dive into the mental health aspects of festive traditions, exploring insights and tips for a balanced holiday season. 

Join Erin and Tanya as they unravel the layers of family dynamics, offering a fresh perspective on maintaining mental wellness during this time of year. 

 Tune in for valuable insights and a deeper understanding of creating a holiday season aligned with your mental health needs.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

Tanya: 0:31

Hey guys, this is Tanya. Hey, this is Erin.

Erin: 0:33

And welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

Tanya: 0:36

Yeah, so today we are going to be talking about the upcoming holiday season, specifically for us. We celebrate Christmas, so we'll be talking, focusing on Christmas but just kind of some traditions some memories, and maybe some obstacles, difficulties that we experience, some of our clients experience around this time of year. So we'll kind of jump into that, but. You know, before, before we kind of get to that, I did want to point out that if you are not seeing a video clip of this because I know we are mostly audio I just wanted to point out that Aaron has this amazing, uh, Christmas tree. Uh, t shirt she, went all out and she has her Santa mug, which is awesome with a literal, it's a mug of, Santa in a mug. So it's chopped up

Erin: 1:27

Santa and I'm not, drinking Santa, that's a different show.

Tanya: 1:38

That's something else. Yeah but I, just wanted to point that out, because you you came decked out properly, whereas I was trying, well,

Erin: 1:48

you have a green you have a green, she's very Christmas green, sweater.

Tanya: 1:54

Oh yeah I did, do the, green Christmas sweater. I, have to admit, that was not intentional, that was just by a happy accident. But I actually have my witch mug, witch's hat mug, because At the time of filming this, it is technically around Halloween and I still have my Halloween background, so that's where, if you're watching the video, that's where the discrepancy will come in. It's always Halloween with Wicked Thinker Therapist. Yes, exactly. That's great. I love that. It's always Halloween when you're a therapist. That should be a quote. Yeah, that'll be our quote. Yes, spookies, the spooky season. Yeah, for sure. but we are getting into the, mind frame of the, holiday season, around that time in December, that's what we're going to be talking about today, and just kind of having a conversation around our own, uh, traditions, things that, you know, memories that we have, and Maybe some, you know, not so, so good associations with this time of year and also talking about maybe some patterns that we see with some of our clients. So, let's, start out with some of the, you know, kind of memories or, things we remember from around Christmas time growing up. Do you, have any particular memories of, things or, you know, kind of special traditions you did with, your family?

Erin: 3:13

I remember like we used to my mom was really big on doing the Christmas decorating of the tree on Christmas Eve. So she would do some of it all before and then on Christmas Eve, she liked to do things like the angel and some of the other stuff. So that was always a big thing. And I know I mentioned to you, cause you're from Massachusetts, we used to always go to La Salette. I think it's in Attleboro, Mass. I'm pretty sure it's in Attleboro. And We would do that every year, like around Christmas, and it's, I think it's run by nuns, or. It's like, but I just remember going through the whole thing. It's usually like super cold and you get hot chocolate at the end, but nuns give you hot chocolate.

Tanya: 4:02

Nuts come out and just hand you a warm drink. It's

Erin: 4:06

very, it's very nice because it's very, but I'm not really selling it. So lost, the lead probably, so I did not really sell it, but it's really beautiful. There's so many lights. It's. I think it's like a thousand lights, probably more than that now, but like lights of like angels and Christmas trees and Santa and but it's really pretty and Christmas music and you just walk around this like Lake thing and it's probably not as big as I remember it because I was a kid, everything seems a

Tanya: 4:33

lot. Yeah. Yeah, it seems really so it's like an outdoor kind of like light display It's an

Erin: 4:39

outdoor display run by this religious sect, Catholic in Atterborough, Mass, and I know the fact was nuns did give you hot chocolate. True story.

Tanya: 4:51

Well, that would be, that's a really good, you know, memory, because it's like you're freezing. You're probably like, oh, this is pretty and everything, but like, I really want something warm and hot chocolate, you know, so, yeah,

Erin: 5:01

and then all the years of going to Catholic school for me in elementary school. It was kind of nice to have them

erin,_tanya denise sza... _ dec 19, 2023 001_riverside: 5:08

do

Erin: 5:08

something nice for me.

Tanya: 5:09

Yep. Yep. I could imagine that. I could imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. I never went to Catholic school, but I've heard that's the consensus. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we could do an

Erin: 5:21

episode of that, just my torture. First, first

Tanya: 5:24

grade and so on. We could definitely, talk about that. I wouldn't have much to add other than anecdotes I've heard from other people. Yeah,

Erin: 5:31

I did not, thankfully, I did not go as long as my mom did. She But yeah, that's a good one. That's a good memory is like going there and the trees. And then of course, looking at, driving around, looking at lights as a kid. Yeah. That was always fun. My dad would always put up like the same big yellow the big Humongous bulbs that they had in like the 80s and 90s like the big yeah That's all people did is like the color big colored bulbs, which I really like the colored bulbs I know I like I appreciate the white and I think they're really beautiful and that's what we do You know done a lot my husband and I but I really like I don't know. There's something about the

Tanya: 6:11

colored lights Yeah, it's very nostalgic, I think. Yeah. What about you? Do

Erin: 6:16

you have any, like, core memories, like, when you think of Christmas or this time of year? I do.

Tanya: 6:21

Yeah I, think, you know on the, on the good side, there's definitely, I think, you know, my, my family, uh, my, my mom would get a a real Christmas tree, which was, when I, look back now, I realize, like, that must have been really expensive, you know, it was really hard to, you know, we were pretty, pretty poor, you know, and so it was, like, I'm surprised we were able to get like a, an actual outdoor Christmas tree. And I just remember like the smell of it, like, I really liked, you know, all the pine needles like I just, I love that and, you know, Decorating the tree, it was like the same ornaments every year and even though I would kind of get sick of them, it was like, it's a nice memory now, looking back on like, oh, you know, because we never like got new ones. It was just, you know, really old ones. I don't think there was like the availability that there is now of all the ornaments, you know, so you kind of kept them for a long time. And. Uh, and I do remember we would, we didn't really do anything in terms of like going out to a place, but I, do remember a really nice memory was going to my mother's, house, my mémé which is a French Canadian way of saying grandmother my mémé's house for Christmas Eve when when we were kids and I loved, but. I loved her, like, Christmas setup she would always have the best decorations. She'd have, like, new additions that I would love to look for, she would also have this moving Santa, like, this, like, walking Santa that would kind of, like, ring its bell and then it would kind of, like, walk a little bit, it was like a mini Santa. Oh, yeah, I remember seeing those. I loved that, and it was just like, her house was always, it always just had the, like, I don't know, classiest kind of decorations, and I, even though I was like, very shy and scared over, over there, and like, I never really talked to anyone I just, I loved that, and at the end of the night, she would always give us, you know, usually she'd give us, like, a Christmas gift, you know, for the most part when we were younger, but kind of as we got older, she would always give out, like, an Andes mints box, or whatever, like, and it would be a different flavor, like, kind of, you know, depending on what you got, and, like, sometimes there was, like, the orange Andes mints, or, like, just the classic, like, mint ones, and I just, Christmas kit. I loved those and I just was always so excited for that. So I, don't know. I just really, I liked that. It was a nice memory. And then, knowing that, you know, when we would leave, we would go, she had, like, was on a cul de sac. We'd drive around and then we'd, like, kind of honk and, you know she'd, be out there and she'd wave to us. And it was, just a really nice memory that I had for, you know, probably the first, like, 10 years. My life, you know it was, really nice. It sounds like she

Erin: 9:11

was very safe and really made the tradition, made Christmas like kind of fun and

Tanya: 9:16

special for you. Yeah, she definitely it, I definitely felt like, yeah, there was something there even though like I didn't, you know, I don't know, I guess I couldn't really, still wasn't really, you know, I didn't really talk to people. Too much there. But it, always kind of held like a special place that I don't know if anybody else knew about, I really love that. And when she passed when I was in my early 20s, I didn't realize how much that meant to me, like, until that point. But it was, yeah, it was really nice you know, and there, there was also just a lot of you know, my mom always tried, like she, she would kind of max out her credit cards, which I, you know, is looking back now, I realize how tough that was, but I think she always wanted to make it a good Christmas for us, you know, I think my dad got kind of upset about that, like until, you know, when he was living with us, but she did really try and because probably we didn't really get much outside of that, you know, so she was like really trying to, Give us stuff. So that was, always kind of exciting, you know, when I was younger, you know, so yeah, I, I think those were some really, you know, great. Core, memories, you know, that I, hold and I really do like and have like positive associations with you know and speaking of which, you know, like now at this time, you know, holidays may be a little different, you know, uh, Christmas may look a little different. What do you and your, family like to do? Now around this time. What's the Christmas like for you guys now well,

Erin: 10:44

we do like Christmas like the week of Christmas or we usually try to find Santa somewhere because even though the kids are getting older I still like pictures and you know, it's still nice and we go to usually Christmas, Eve We drive around and look at lights. So I have that tradition. I think I kept that from my mom because she was really into looking at the lights and driving around. And even though we're in Florida, I make hot

Tanya: 11:13

cocoa. And then we'll, probably I'll be sweating,

Erin: 11:18

but we'll put the A. C., we'll

Tanya: 11:20

put

Erin: 11:21

the A. C.

Tanya: 11:23

on. I think there's like, isn't there like iced hot cocoa or something now? Like, I've never heard of that. I think Dunkin Donuts did that a while back, but I don't, know. I don't know if they still do it. That might be, I mean, that might be something, I don't know if they do it anymore, but I remember hearing about that and I was like, that would be a good idea here in Florida. That's a good

Erin: 11:42

idea. Maybe I should do that. Just put chocolate milk and put with cream on top of it. I don't know. Yeah But so we do that, so we'll drive around, look at lights, look at, and then there's a place near us that's really cool. It has like all the trees and like, it has like tons of trees, all decorated'em, and there's piped in music. So we'll do that usually. Around Christmas Eve or something, and then my dad will probably come over for Christmas. Lunch or dinner or something my family's all scattered and. And or not here, like, so, like, a lot of them are in New York or, you know, up north and. It's other places, so it's just us here in Florida and, but yeah we always watch Christmas movies. We love Elf. We're big Elf fans in this house. I was going to

Tanya: 12:30

ask, is there a favorite, but it's, yeah, I love Elf too.

Erin: 12:33

Yeah, it's funny. I used to be so into the Christmas story, and I still like it, but, I don't know, Elf is just, Elf is my jam, and also I love I also do love to be depressed at Christmas, I, love the, what is that, the one with Jimmy Stewart?

Tanya: 12:54

Oh, it's a beautiful life. It's a wonderful life. It's a wonderful

Erin: 12:58

life. Yeah. I always have to watch that. I, even if I'm just watching, I usually watch it by myself. I just love that

Tanya: 13:04

movie. Well, that's, I mean, that has an uplifting message at the end, you know, so that's definitely. Yeah, you know, kind of an uplifting one at the end it. Yeah, at first, it's kind of down, but it's

Erin: 13:17

like, Oh, this is tough. But then I was like, at every time. Yeah, it's every time it gets you. It's just really, yeah, that's a good one. What about you? Do you have any traditions for Christmas Eve or Christmas or,

Tanya: 13:29

Yeah, I actually it's, mostly with my Yeah. It is with my husband's family. Like, I mean I pretty much they actually are very strong and, you know, kind of just being together and eating food and hanging out, which I love. So his my mother in law, she will usually host Christmas Eve, and we'll make just a ton of food and everybody brings over food too. So there's always leftover food, and then we, you know, have that and we have the, their homemade wine and just, you know, loud. Portuguese people, you know, talking, and it's it's actually, it's really nice, actually, they all are, you know, very close and nice, family to, to be around, so, you know, it's I really, enjoy that, and then on Christmas Day, it's the same thing, you know, but it's at very specific times, the past few years, it's been at my mother in law's house as well. Like she's hosted kind of twice or you know, it'll be at like a, one of his aunt's houses or cousin's just past couple of years has been a little tough. but yeah it's really nice. Because, you know we don't really do gifts all that much. And I actually really love that because there's not like this pressure. It's just about being together and eating and. You know, that's really, that really, that feels good. So, personally, I, my husband is not a Christmas fan. He kind of thinks like, oh, this is like all about presents and stuff. I, try to tell him like, I, I really like the going to see lights. I like to go see bright nights, which is in Springfield, Mass. It's just like an outdoor. Light display that you can drive through and, yeah it's really cool. I like to do that and also drive around with the lights. Like, these are just things I, think are, nice to do, you know, and my husband's not really into it, but he'll go with me and I think he kind of has been seeing like it's, you know you can, still enjoy points about Christmas and it doesn't have to be about gift giving or anything like that, and. Uh, you know, and I do like to watch movies, like I kind of rotate them, but I do have to say one of my favorites is, Uh, Christmas Vacation, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase and I do really love that one. I love Elf too, and I kind of have to, you know, it's a wonderful life. I have to vary sometimes because of this. Yeah, it's level of depression. Yeah, it can be heavy at first. So, but I, those are I, really do love those three. Those three movies and, I try to look for like other ones and sometimes as a, you know, an ode to our Hallmark movies, I do, I will find one of those that I, do kind of, just like to have on, you know, just for the ambiance of it. But yeah, that's, yeah, it just kind of, and it's like, you know, there's, you know, like we talked about the formula and the setting and everything. It just feels nice, you know, to have Danica or Candace in your, living room, you know, you know, it's going to be one of them or somebody that's kind of close to them or something. But yeah, that's, and I actually really enjoy, Christmas with that, with my in laws. It actually

Erin: 16:38

sounds perfect. Yeah. And. I like how you describe. You know that christmas it doesn't mean that it's commercial just because you're looking at lights What I like about looking at lights and looking at people's houses the same like with halloween and everything. It's just that Strangers put so much care. Yeah doing their outside of their house because they know it's going to give pleasure to other people they may or may not know. Yeah. I just love that about

Tanya: 17:07

people. I do too. I do too. I really like that. And I like that it does give joy. And it's, you know, it's a really it's a, dark season, right? We're going into shorter days and longer nights and having brightness, having the tradition of bringing a tree in and lighting it up is very much based on like a pagan holiday of light. Yeah. You know, celebrating and saying, Hey, we need more, light, you know, and to, kind of bring about more lightness and I really like that. I like that there is that idea behind it. I like bringing, you know, decorating my own tree and having, you know, all these kind of, I like to add in a new ornament every year that I have my husband, you know, pick out and I'm like, okay what, about this year? You know, was it. A trip that we took or was it, you know, when we got our dog, Lucy, of course, I got a lookalike Lucy ornament and, you know, said Lucy on it and got it personalized, you know each, year we kind of, that's something I've kind of started for, ourselves that I think is really nice. And that's

Erin: 18:08

probably so important for you too, because you mentioned that as a kid, you didn't get a lot of, like, it was like, okay, here's the same. Yellow ball putting this up. Here's my handprint. Yeah, and

Tanya: 18:20

I mean yeah, there wasn't really like that kind of personalization I think that's kind of of the times, you know, like in the 80s that just there's more of a market for that now You know, yeah, but yeah,

Erin: 18:32

we had the same You know five or six boxes every year and it's It's yeah I've mentioned the handprint because I know it's still the same even as we became teenagers and older my mom still really well We still have to put that up on the three But we still had to put like the paper tree and we had a plastic tree because my mom had asthma and she was allergic to or so she said she was allergic to trees who knows if she was or she just didn't like the pine cones. But she,

Tanya: 19:00

she's like, this is too much of a mess. I'm just going to say I'm allergic.

Erin: 19:03

Yeah let's just, put this together. And then, so we, would always have to like, put, you know, stick it in the, you know, like, whatever it is,

Tanya: 19:13

tree thing, you know, what is it called? Oh the stand thing. Yeah, you

Erin: 19:17

know, like, the bristles or my brain was just shutting off thinking about, like, having to fluff the tree. Like, we were like, we all were in charge of like fluff,

Tanya: 19:26

not that type of fluffer, yeah,

Erin: 19:28

not, like, yeah, it was a weird, because it was so dusty and I, used to always wonder, like how, is this not affecting her, because it was like very, like, it was from the, in the attic, or the garage, or somewhere, or basement, No, we had it in the basement, and it was always, like, so gross and dusty, like, when you first take it out, because

Tanya: 19:49

Yeah, it's got that, like, like, musty smell. I'm surprised that wasn't Yeah,

Erin: 19:54

and every year it's like, yeah, it's like, and then you have the red, the orange with the orange

Tanya: 19:58

I did not like that tradition. Yeah, it's very, yeah, it kind of felt like too, like structured, sort of, and not really, festive. Yeah,

Erin: 20:08

having all our lead exposure

Tanya: 20:10

for the year. Yeah, exactly. You got in enough for a lifetime supply. Yeah, the 80s really they, were wild times wild times. Yeah it's definitely it's, nice to, you know, be able to, look back and to say, okay, these are things that I didn't really maybe like or things that I'd like to change, you know for, myself and to you know have, this instead. You know, right, right now I, do wish. I do wish my husband did enjoy Christmas a little more because I, you know, my dad growing up was a huge, grinch. Like he literally was just like, he would say bah humbug, like he literally would and would be like, uh, you know, he just had nothing to do with it kind of thing. And I, mean, he was only I think he was only, like, I only knew him living with us until I was about seven or so, but he just stayed with, that kind of, you know, down on, on Christmas kind of, kind of feel, and I really, you know, for me it was never about the presents, it was never really, like, I just liked that everything seemed a little bit better at that, time.

Erin: 21:21

It's more magical. I mean, that's what I feel, and I don't know if it's like I don't know if it's Santa. I don't know if it's the lights. I don't know what it is, but there's just something Probably all of it. Yeah, it's just something very Magical and I just love it. Of course. I mean i'm not loving That you go to a store right now. There's halloween thanksgiving christmas out displayed But I do love the christmas Area, season, whatever you want to call it, because I, because of the lights, because most people seem a little happier, or, I say most, unless you're like at a store driving somewhere, then you're like, well, maybe not.

Tanya: 22:04

Road rage, yeah. Yeah. Road rage and too many people pushing past, elbowing past, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely get kind of, you know it's very magical until, you know, there's too many times Mariah Carey has sang, you know her, song, she's come out of the woodworks and she's done, you know, de thawed and she's come out and said, okay, now I need to sing this song and haunt everybody, but I still think it's a great time. I still really like the, yeah, just seeing the lights and just kind of feeling like, okay, I know what's going to happen and this is going to be nice and, Pleasant. I don't know. And there's going to be, you know, family time that we just eat and have some good wine. Like nothing, bad there, you know? Well, yeah.

Erin: 22:53

Yeah.

Tanya: 22:54

Yeah, I think it's also like, in my in laws family. Yeah, in my in laws. And

Erin: 22:58

I was like, I just paused it and I'm like, well, well, if you're at my, my, my house growing up, it could be a problem. But, yeah, and that's, I

Tanya: 23:08

mean, yeah. That's a good point though. I mean, that's a good segue into, you know, yeah, sometimes there were some not so great memories. So are there some of those that you kind of, that you have that, you know, we can. If you want to share or you just you know, no, sometimes they're just weren't they're

Erin: 23:24

not listening any Yeah Yeah, and I think as you were talking I was thinking maybe the reason why I also like Christmas So much is because it felt safe and felt predictable for the most part. Yeah, where maybe Other aspects of other days may not have, but of course there was still the unpredictability of who may get too drunk or what may happen on the certain holidays because maybe Especially when there's big gatherings or any type of gatherings there's was usually like, you know maybe my mom is drinking a little bit more maybe my father or me, you know, it's just So that, as a kid and a teen, and it's, even an adult, going back it's not fun, and it's not, you're not sure, like, okay, well, what is going to happen? Or, how do I react? Or, you know, do I react? Or,

Tanya: 24:27

you know, so that's Yeah. Kind of the uncertainty of it, and the, knowing that there's something not good there, but you don't know which way it's gonna go. Yeah. And I

Erin: 24:35

think a lot of people, you see that a lot, like, written. You see, like, different means, a different, you know, people say that, and, like, around the holidays, it can be really, it's, like, really exciting and really fun, but it also can be really scary going back home, because a lot of times you feel like, oh, great, am I that 13 year old kid again? Am I 16 again? Why do I feel so anxious or why am I getting so angry as soon as I'm pulling up into the driveway? I know I, I feel that a lot until I started to really process, okay, I'm not 16 or I'm not 15. I'm a grown up and I don't have to be you know, afraid or I don't have to feel like they, you know, control me or if there's a situation I'm not comfortable with, I'm allowed

Tanya: 25:23

to leave. Right. And I can go to a different part of my life that I've created that is, that does feel good and that is safe, you know, that's, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, it really, you know, I, I do have to say, I think, I think the holidays were kind of a nice space, like kind of a suspension away from some of the day to day stuff. But yeah, think I did have kind of worries of with my dad, you know, my dad drank a lot. My mom, my mom wasn't. Um, that wasn't really the worry, but it was more just kind of like the fighting and, you know, would somebody get mad at somebody and would there be something, you know, or will the cops be, be called on Christmas and this is embarrassing and, you know, um, but I, I, you know, as I got older, you know, a big thing. That I worried about, and this is really strange, I think, but I just, I just kind of remembered this when you were, when you were saying about, you know, kind of not feeling safe, is that there, there was a difficulty I would say with my mom, um, you know, that she was kind of very personally, um, took, took gifts very personally, and so, it was kind of, and being, you know, being able to get her kind of the, the perfect gift and her kind of making a comparison, like if I, um, I just remember one Christmas, my sister and I had gotten, um, we went in and, and got my dad a sweater, and we didn't often get my dad anything because, like I said, he's very, he doesn't like Christmas, but we were just, we were both up from Florida, I was probably in my Twenties or so. and so we got him a sweater. We pitched in, got him like a nice sweater. And then, you know, for my mom, I think we each got something separate, you know, for, for her, because we just happened to see this sweater and we're like, oh, that fits her father or something. And, you know, I, it's not like I had a ton of money. Hello, social services, um, you know, uh, mental health, community mental health, like, you know, we've talked about this before, but. Uh, you know, I, I would stress over what to get my mom, because she, the gift I gave her, it was like a jewelry box, um, that year, and I didn't quite, I never knew what to get her, because it was hard to know what she liked or not, it still is, and, she was kind of insulted that we got my dad a sweater, and she perceived that as being better than the gift. I got her, I don't know what my sister got her individually, but I just remember that was kind of a thing and I just remember feeling like, is this really important? And I actually put, stressed over a lot to get her something and it felt kind of not good enough. Yeah.

Erin: 28:07

Um. It feels like there's probably a lot of jealousy too of your mom when you and your sister get in your dad a present. It probably was.

Tanya: 28:16

Yeah, it kind of felt like that, which was strange because I had not, I don't, I didn't sense that ever. Like, they just kind of never interacted. Um, they couldn't interact because they would fight at that point. They were very, very much separated. They never technically divorced because they didn't have the money for it, but they were not together. They were like, you know, hadn't been together and it was a very odd thing, and I think that was something that always stressed me out, was being able to, you know, realize that my, mom, and who else to get for, like, if I don't see a sister, do I get her something? Are they going to be insulted? You know, there's always a lot of dynamics there, you know, and I, yeah, I

Erin: 28:58

struggle with that too, like, not knowing what is expected or what we're supposed to do. Yeah. I think my mom was very similar to yours. Like my mom would start shopping in October and would do all layaway and spend money she didn't have. And it was very much, I think, okay, well, I can't do this for you throughout the year. And the same thing like even getting, sometimes receiving presents from her, I'd be like, you know, as a teen, I was like, do you know me? But then I tried, you know, like, but as a kid, of course, it was like, you know, Barbie dream house and everything, you know, like everything you, you know, could think of, but. Yeah, I do remember like even as a gift, gift for her, it was, I've lived with her and it was really hard to know what do I get her, you know, like, do I, you know, say, do I get her a sweater? Do I get her burning cigarettes? No, just kidding. I'm like, you know, seriously, like what, what, what, what do I get her? And it's, it's hard, it's hard. It's hard sometimes when you know the person, but you don't. And I think that also happens with people in. different family units. in that shows up a lot at Christmastime because there is sometimes this expectation of You are expected to Find stuff for all these people you may not see or talk to you, but they are related to you They have your same last name you're grew up with There's you know Commercials that say that you have these expectations that you're

Tanya: 30:24

supposed to do this and yeah, it's difficult Yeah, for sure. I, yeah, I, I think it can be that, that was something that I, I'm just, you know, realizing how much of, even like as a young child, you know, with like birthdays and stuff, there was kind of this expectation, you know. With my mom to to get these gifts and it's strange because I would hear my friends talking about their parents and they would be like, Oh, you know, my mom's really into, I don't know, horses or something. So I'm going to get her this horse thing. And I would think I don't have anything like I don't know that my mom is really into anything like the only things I knew about her were them. You know, I don't know the things that she struggled with and so I would try to ask her questions and she would say things like, you know, she went to Woodstock and things like that and she would mention some things about liking the Beatles or the monkeys like when she was, you know, younger and so I would like be like, okay, let me those are things I guess that she likes or maybe she would like, you know, It was definitely met with, like, oh, I, I like these, I liked them a long time ago. And it was kind of like, it was like a measure of like, I don't, you don't know me, but the thing is, is that side was never It was never there. So I, how would I know?

Erin: 31:41

yeah, it's interesting. Like, I knew my mom, like, of the obsession of Kennedy, which we'll talk about. And, um, like, she liked owls and bells. And, you know, it is weird. Like, you don't really, like, I don't know. It's, it's different. It's, um, yeah, it is weird. It's, uh, it's

Tanya: 32:01

Yeah, and that may just be, like, parenting around that time. I don't know. It could be.

Erin: 32:05

It could be, because it feels like, well, even my dad. I, I knew he liked to sail. And, you know, at that time, it's like he, he, he liked to run and exercise and crazy, you know, but it is, yeah, it's maybe, maybe parents just had that separation at that day, you know, it might've been, or maybe, maybe it wasn't as important to share your personal life with your kids but then again, I don't this could be another episode. I know my mom shared too much at times, you know,

Tanya: 32:33

Right, right, but yeah, not maybe in the not in the realm of like, you know, things that she enjoys or like who she is as a person. Instead, it was something else. Yeah, kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that kind of speaks to the dysfunction of some things that, you know, people may face around Christmas, right? That, right. There's maybe these, you know, past patterns of, um, you know, associations with, like, I can never get the right gift and that kind of leads to, well, I don't really know this person on this, this level. And when you're, when you're the kid, you can feel like, you know, because of all the dynamics and everything, like, you know, I had a lot of domestic violence and things and a lot of struggles financially, you know, so I don't, I don't know that my mom really had the space for that. I also think she struggles with that and has struggled with that with other people all throughout her life. I can see that now. Um, but it was, it was really hard for me because, you know, I never, I never talked to her about this because I think she maybe would have just denied it and I think she would deny it now. That tends to be kind of the mode of anything, but it, it was really hurtful and really stressful. I think, you know, even as a young kid, I remember feeling like I had to get the perfect gift. And I mean, I didn't have any. money as a

Erin: 33:54

kid. So as a kid, you have, you're, you're reliant on if the teacher, hopefully you have a good teacher is doing the arts and crafts that a couple of weeks before Christmas or something, or I don't know if you have a older someone that's going to take you to what was a job lot, you know, like, or something to get you something

Tanya: 34:15

cheap. Yeah, I just always saved my money from like birthday money if I got like some birthday money or like something so I could just You know, and I think my mother gave me like, you know, maybe like 5 that like that Christmas fair that like, you know, kind of thing, but like, I mean, they're all little cheap trinket things and. Yeah,

Erin: 34:35

you were just seriously just thinking ahead to. Saving your Christmas money and everything. I mean, like, that's so, so thoughtful.

Tanya: 34:44

I think that was more kind of the pressure of what I, of what I felt. You know, like, it felt like I had to, I had to do that, you know, kind of thing. But I think that is why I'm very, very thoughtful about birthdays and, and ho Or, I, I think I've kind of gotten out of that because I, I felt like I always had to it was a very odd dynamic that I know if my mom is listening, she would probably deny, but it was absolutely there for me and I, I know talking to some of my sisters, they felt that too. I'm not trying to lay any blame here or say anything negative. That's just, that was my experience with it, you know, but, um. I mean, there were, there were good things, like I talked about before, but I think that's the kind of complicated thing is that there can be, you know, some really great memories and maybe you want to take them from the past, you know, and kind of either, you know, alter them or, or make them yours in the present and then the things that you don't want to relive, like I, I I'm so glad that gifts are not really a part of this holiday anymore. It took me a long time to get away from that. Yeah, now you

Erin: 35:45

can do gifts more organically. Like when, when you see, you know, like you sent me a really great Tanya sent me a really great James Spader mug just for the heck of it. And Because I'm insane. But I just, like, I, I shared my, like, I was, like, obsessed with Blacklist for a while, and then I just got down this James Spader grab it all. And so, and He is pretty awesome. He is pretty awesome. I would love to, like, have a drink with him. I would too. But, so James Bader, since you're listening, but um, yeah, but just out of the blue I got like this awesome, so thoughtful mug from Tanya and it just, it just meant so much to me. And I, it wasn't Christmas, it wasn't my birthday, it was just a heck of it and it just meant so much to me. You're a good gift

Tanya: 36:33

giver. Oh, thanks. Thanks. Well, you, I mean, you are too. You, you, you would send me, I mean, you know, cards and, you know, personalized cards and, um, you know, your daughter sent me that, that bracelet about, um, you know, again. The, the podcast. Yeah. And I thought that was, that was amazing. Yeah. So I, I love that. I, I love when it can feel organic and, and thoughtful like that, you know, and, and not to say that, that gift giving around those holidays and stuff can't be at all. Um, it's just, I just have like a, a, an association with the pressure of it and the kind of hurtfulness of it. So I think I tend to kind of just go like kind of when I'm, when I really do think of that, that kind of means more to me. Okay. Um, you know, in terms of giving, you know, like, that's kind of the thing that I relate to, I guess. I don't think I really pieced that all together until just right now when I said that. So, um, yeah, I think that, that kind of brings, brings us to another point, right? Like, sometimes you're kind of always processing some of these past things and how they affect you and how around Christmas, around the holidays, you know, it can feel like all these things, you know, maybe, maybe haunt you, but you can, you can take the good and you can, put away the bad, you know, and kind of not to say that it's not there, but to say, I don't, I don't need to have that involved in my, in my celebration of this, you know, and I can make new memories. Yeah.

Erin: 37:55

It's, yeah, I'm very cognizant. like different holidays or anything. I I just don't serve alcohol just because of, you know, people want to bring stuff, they can, but I'm not going to have it. Not that I'm a recovering alcoholic or, you know, but I just don't want I don't want the cops called because yeah, I have had that family member at different holidays in the past, growing up or different things and drinking at some holiday functions makes me feel uneasy because it's like, oh gosh, you know, I don't want to Have somebody be like that, even though I'm probably not surrounded by people like that

Tanya: 38:34

right, right. It's just something you've kind of taken from, from the past. It just feels, feels good to have that. Yeah, to have that limit kind of set there. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Erin: 38:46

It is weird how different things, because A lot of, and that, that also is a lot of times people at different holidays, especially Christmas and Thanksgiving, they feel, Oh great, I'm going to see my uncle so and so he's going to be drunk or I'm going to see this person and I don't know what if I say the wrong thing. You know, I'm sure we hear that a lot, different scenarios maybe with clients and it does happen a lot. Christmas is very.

Tanya: 39:11

Yeah, and I think that's kind of why we're, you know, kind of using our own personal examples. We're kind of saying, you know, this is this is a time and a lot of times we do talk about this in therapy, but just to kind of, you know, get the message out there that you have to do what's best for you, you know, as an adult. You more than likely, I mean, like, I know there's probably some exceptions to this, but you more than likely have the choice now to be able to visit these family members or these people in your life. And you can either, if you decide to do that, you can limit the time, you can have a plan B kind of set in there. You can choose to limit the time interacting with particular members. Um, if you're hosting, you can choose not to invite. particular people.

Erin: 39:53

Yeah, isn't that awesome? You don't have to. Yeah. You don't have to have everybody. And you also, guess what? You can choose not to do anything. You can choose to go on vacation for the holiday. You don't have to recreate your past trauma every year.

Tanya: 40:08

Absolutely. Yeah no, that's it. That's a really good point because I think there was a point personally where I, I realized, oh, I don't have to. I don't necessarily have to spend time with, with my side of the family, I can, I can just have this because this feels good and the other part feels like somebody's going to be insulted that I didn't see them or I didn't give them a gift or, um, you know, they're, somebody's going to, you know, act out or, you know, whatever it is and I can, that feels good. And nobody in my family really does anything, so, on

Erin: 40:42

my side. Yeah, it sounds like your in laws, and I just love the tradition. It sounds very, very food focused, and that's

Tanya: 40:50

really nice. That's nice. It is really nice for me. Like, I, I really, I look forward to it. Like, I actually have, like, a, oh my god, like, I, I think, you know, years ago, I would have thought, Interacting, having to, to be at a dinner with, with a family and, you know, interacting like this, like it just, it felt really stressful and really like, I don't want to do this, but it's, it's a good time and it works well with my in laws. And, and again, I'm not trying to throw shade on my own family. It's just that. I mean, I think we can all agree, if any of you are listening, those were not good times. Um, so, you know, uh, you know,

Erin: 41:30

it just wasn't, it just didn't work out. And some family members, I know in my own family unit, like sometimes people romanticize what happened and sometimes people forget, and sometimes people do remember, and it is difficult when, you know, people recreate the past, so yes, I've had some shade thrown at me by some family. At first when I was like, nope, I'm not coming for any holiday You know Like when my mom was still alive and when they still did it and then when my sister started to become the host I was like, nope this is not gonna happen and it it did really upset people and I'm sure people thought I was a big jerk, but I needed to have that separation and I needed to have that physical distance and also I needed to have the I needed to take care of my mental health and my mental well being, and that meant creating

Tanya: 42:18

new traditions. Right. Right. And you probably don't want to, you know, expose your, your kids to that, you know, if you were to bring them, you know, you probably didn't want them to, you know, to have them experience that or the possibility of that and to have those feelings around it. Um, you know, but it's, it is, it's a lot, you know, having to say. No to things or choosing to say, I'm not going to be responsible for my family getting together, you know, and and having this because it feels like I'm expected to do this or to participate in this. I'm actually just, um, you know, going to going to do my own thing with my husband's family. And before that, maybe just kind of do my own thing, you know, um, but yeah. Uh, you know, and, and yeah, exactly. It's like, you have to, you, you may be villainized for it. You know, you may, I did have one of my sisters that I'm estranged from for a lot of reasons, um, say that, you know, it was crazy that I was so selfish that I spent time with my in laws and I didn't bother with my own family when, I mean, there was nothing, there were no events being held in the, the few that were, I went to and. Um, so yeah, there's just, there's a lot of stuff that I just feel like it's just better this way, and, but you're gonna face opposition, you know, people are gonna say you're selfish, or you're this, you're that, make you feel bad, but, I mean, you're, you're gonna feel that way anyways if you go, so, it's kind of like, Which, which one is, is better for you, you know, and which one do you want to be able to have a choice to, to have that? So, um, you know, that's, that's what we're trying to, uh, just kind of, you know, that's why we're discussing it because holidays can be complicated. Family histories are complicated. Um, you know, even when there's great times, like we mentioned some great memories, but you know, you still have to, in the end, as an adult, do what you need to do, um, if you, if you choose to celebrate. Um, maybe you decide this time of year is just, you know, December and that's, that's that. And that works for you. That's totally, totally fine. Um, you know, and just saying, I don't even want to participate. This is not a good time for me, but, um, whatever it is, you know, and saying, I, I'm giving myself permission to have, have this, this time of year, as I need it to be for, for my own mental health, for, for who I am now as an adult. That was kind of, you know, just a little glimpse into our, our, our world, but to just kind of talk about, you know, self care around this time of year, um, but, um, yeah, we hope, you know, however, if you celebrate, or if you don't, um, that you have a great December, if you do, you know, Merry Christmas, um, any other holidays that are, that are celebrated, um, of course, you know, happy, um, Happy all those holidays. Happy holidays to everyone. Happy all holidays. Happy all holidays. Uh, we focus just primarily on Christmas because that's what we celebrate. Um, we're just talking about our own personal experiences, but whichever way we, we wish you, um, you know, good, good mental health during these holidays. So, let's, Just to give a little plug at the end, you know, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapists. Um, and on Facebook, we are the Wicked Psychotherapists and don't forget to subscribe. Follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and write us a review. It helps us out a lot. That really, really helps us. So, um, yeah, so and don't forget, stay wicked and keep your mind

Erin: 46:04

well. Bye guys. Okay. All right. Bye. Bye

46:08

We Wish You A Merry Christmas I'm, Parker. I'm sorry.