Exploring Grief and Family Dynamics in Netflix's 'Unstable'

In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Erin and Tanya delve into the Netflix series 'Unstable,' starring Rob Lowe and his son, John Owen Lowe. 

They discuss the father-son dynamics, mental health themes, and the portrayal of grief through the characters of Ellis and Jackson. 

The conversation also touches on personal anecdotes about dealing with loss, how grief affects relationships, and how different people process it uniquely. 

With humor and heartfelt insights, they analyze the show's depiction of therapy, the impact of larger-than-life parents, and the impact grief and loss can have.

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

tayna 0:31

So today we have a really cool topic to talk about. We thought this was fun. It's a Netflix series called Unstable that stars Rob Lowe and his real life son, His real life son's name is John Owen, I believe. And we thought this would be, there's a lot of, uh, father son dynamics, some mental health themes in there. We just thought it would be a cool little discussion today. Kind of interesting. So I think, you know, maybe just kind of to dive in there. How did you find the series overall? Because there's only one, one season so far. There is possibly a season 2. It's been kind of put on hold from the writer's strike. But how did you find it overall?

erin 1:15

Well, I love Rob Lowe. you know, 80s tie in, everything goes back to the 80s. And it's funny, I was thinking when I knew we were doing this episode, I was like, Didn't we just talk about Rob Lowe recently? And we talked about like how, I don't know, there's just something great about him, but I know, and

tayna 1:35

it's funny.

erin 1:36

I gosh I even started watching his game show. He has a game show called, I think it's called the floor. Yeah, I watched that too. It's really good. Uh, but I liked it. I really wasn't sure what I was. Coming into or what it was going to be about at first, because it's you know, it's like, oh, well, this, that description is like, narcissistic father, whatever it says, you know, grieving and relationship with son. So you don't know exactly what it's going to be about or how it's going to be portrayed. But, I found it really funny and also, I don't know, I thought it was pretty, I know it seemed really out there, but I felt like it was kind of realistic too, with somebody dealing with grief and, Not really coming into terms with it and also trying to navigate being a parent and also. Your relationship with your children, or even having a relationship with your children.

tayna 2:36

Yeah, it's interesting. There are a lot of dynamics there with the main character, Ellis and spoiler alert, there's going to be a lot. If you haven't watched this, then you'll know all about it. Right? So you all know that just, you know, with our Netflix specials

erin 2:48

We do have other streaming channels besides just Netflix, but we tend to always

tayna 2:53

I don't know, for some reason, it just hooks us. But yeah, we do. We do look at other things. Maybe that's something we should look at in the future. There's something from a different.

erin 3:01

Yeah, go to streaming prime or Apple.

tayna 3:06

But yeah, the father son relationship. I mean, it's a strained one. The father Ellis played by Rob Lowe is very much this eccentric bio. Technologist who's invented this type of plastic that's biodegradable. He has this company. He's looking for, like, his next 3 breakthrough, but he's also dealing with the death of his wife of, you know, like, 30 something years. And he's kind of, they 1st portray him as kind of being a little bit, you know, maybe off his rocker. He's kind of doing some odd things. He's showing up and, you know, kind of being. You know, naked in his office kind of thing. So they're like, okay, we don't know if they're going to keep him on the board. And then if this company is going to stay afloat, all the people that work around him. So they're all trying to help him stay right. Stable quote, unquote and so they look to bring in his son who is, I believe, in New York. Was it?

erin 3:57

Yeah, I think he was in New York and I don't know if he was in an orchestra or something like that having a full time job.

tayna 4:03

I think he was just like a flute teacher, like he just kind of, like, taught private lessons, sort of, at least that's what, I don't know, that's all I said, but he's like, totally in a different world, he's not, you know, he does this very niche job of like, teaching flute and You know, it's kind of like in opposite worlds. He's, you know, actually an opposite kind of size of the country. And they know that he's someone that can help ground his father, the people around Ellis. So, they bring Jackson, the son, which is Rob Lowe's real life son

erin 4:33

in there.

tayna 4:34

And it, you know, it kind of causes. a lot of tension and trying to talk about their, you know, shared grief and the loss of the wife and the mother. So it, it creates some interesting dynamics there. Uh, you know, and you kind of start to realize that there is a, larger than life role that Ellis, the father, plays and the son feels kind of ousted from this and kind of in his shadow. And, you know, even in his occupation as a flutist, you know, and kind of just teaching lessons, he's not really in, in the spotlight too much. And his dad is very idealistic, always trying to save the world and people are always drawn into his orbit. Right. So it's kind of also a lot of those dynamics altogether. And I wonder what was your take on their relationship? What did you think about that?

erin 5:24

Well, it seemed like they probably I don't know if they didn't ever have a relationship before because maybe the Mother kind of softened the relationship between the two of them that's what I was getting at because maybe both Ellis and Jackson had relationships with the mother and So they never had to have relationships together either was always all of them together or she was with someone else Jackson or she was with Ellis, so they never really had to figure out the 2 of them fit together without her. That's

tayna 5:56

a good point. Yeah, they never really had to navigate a father son relationship and and it probably because of the difficulties that were presented and yeah, the mom's probably like a buffer and also acted as, you know, okay, you can have a relationship with me and, you know, separately, and that kind of solved that. But yeah her death definitely. Cause them to take a look at that. And it seems like Jackson, the son, he is someone who kind of has to emotionally caretake. Dad Ellis, and he has to kind of look out for him, but then you also see Jackson struggle with the fact that everyone that's around him is always kind of asking about his dad. Like, oh you're Ellis's son? He's more Ellis's son than Jackson himself. Right. And so he has his own struggles with that, and he really wants to return back to his life in New York, but you know, his father convinces him to stay. And everybody else does because, he wants him to have a place in the biotech company.

erin 6:51

Well, they all start, you know, can't spoilers, but they all start, I think originally wanting Jackson to stay for selfish reasons for the company's reason, but. You know, his father actually wants him to stay because realizing like, wait a minute, we need to have this relationship or, you know, I feeling more human or normalized with you around. And. You know, it's, it could be, you know, seeing your child who, you know, the parent that, you know, they were married for like 30 something years and it could be difficult to, at first, having him around. And maybe that's why it's like, wait a minute, he lived all the way in New York. He wasn't really pushing him to come back to California until they spent some time together and realized, We don't know each other or let's build this relationship.

tayna 7:37

Yeah that's really true. I mean, because I think Jackson, the son almost seems to have not grieved either. Like he's very much, I wouldn't say repressed, but he's not very, he doesn't really seem to want to connect with his dad because they've never really had that connection. And he also probably has a little bit of resentment because of his larger than life personality. Right. And. I think Rob Lowe's character, Ellis, is really acting out the grief in strange ways, like, he's trying to kind of, you know, it comes off very eccentric, but it's his own way of working through this as a person who's used to kind of just. moving through life and being larger than life and having, you know, kind of all the answers and all the people kind of come to him and things kind of working out.

erin 8:19

Yeah.

tayna 8:20

And he doesn't quite know what to do. So they're both lost in that, but they can't quite connect on it.

erin 8:25

Yeah. Well, grief is something that. You can't plan for even if you've, you know, like a lot of times people, like when you know, someone's going to pass away, you might have like anticipatory grief or, you know, like, okay, well, I'm going to plan it or I know this is happening, but even once it happens it's so individualized you've never experienced this before, you don't know, even if you've lost somebody in the past for a different situation, but each person, each relationship you have with somebody is so unique and. You don't know how you're going to feel or how, you know, you're going to experience, or how you're going to react, or how those around you are going to react, or how you're supposed to react, or, you know, show up for everybody.

tayna 9:04

Yeah, and that's kind of the whole, like, I think the whole central theme is making sure Ellis is stable enough to run this company to keep this company going to continue to support all the jobs with the people that are working there. But, you know, also to continue this mission of, like, saving the world with all these, you know, carbon, turning carbon into concrete and also absorbing some of the carbon dioxide. Something like that. I don't know, but something really important to preserve those things and. Instead, no one, I think, is really looking at it as all these people around him that are trying to preserve him and kind of make sure he's stable, they're not really looking at, well, he's got grief, and he actually probably might not be stable, and how do you manage that? They did get him a therapist who he saw once and then disappeared, and we find out that Ellis has kind of gone missing. Kidnapped him and kept him in his basement, but the therapist seems to like it there and really seems to bond with him. And it's a very, it's a very nice, like, furnished, you know, really nice area. You know, he's, yeah, it's

erin 10:03

Probably something he couldn't afford at on his therapy salary anytime. So, yeah, there's a lot of manipulation, unethical behavior from the therapist too. We thought, you know, like, it's not not hopefully what you would see in most therapy settings, but yeah, he gets, he does get kidnapped, but it almost seems like a willing participant towards the end.

tayna 10:25

yeah, because when he gets to leave he ends up coming back, right. And they have like Sundays and stuff. And he's like, kind of got this weird friendship bond with him. And which is strange considering what happens at the end, right. But, you know, which we'll talk about. And a little bit, but yeah, so and also, you know, at this point, Jackson is kind of, you know, he ends up staying and working in the company. He's trying to find, like, his niche. He has a date with 1 of the scientists that are working in the red lab. I think, uh, Ruby uh, realizes that's not really a connection. And at the end, he realizes there might be a connection with the other scientists that's working in the lab, because they're kind of more quirky

erin 11:06

kind

tayna 11:06

of things that he probably was not, as you pointed out, probably, we're not as acceptable for him to kind of look for in a partner with his dad, or maybe he didn't want that kind of eccentricity. That was kind of like his dad, maybe he was trying to just be kind of straight and narrow to kind of oppose him.

erin 11:23

Yeah, because his father's, you know, maybe in the past, like the people he chose to date or. Commit to or whatever we're probably he probably felt like they had to look a certain way or career wise, a certain level since his father is probably someone that people look up to and has a certain reputation. It was probably difficult being The son of Ellis.

tayna 11:47

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's just, there's a lot of kind of dynamics that go into that. But he seemed Jackson seems to come into his own and kind of realize what is or at least walk towards it a little bit more. And you know, Ellis is a little bit of a different story with how he's kind of, you know, Trying to grieve, trying to kind of make the latest breakthrough and then also trying to be with his son, maybe it's sometimes in more connective ways, other times, not so much but, you know, I was wondering, do you at all have any kind of personal stories that you feel like you can relate to this dynamic or anything that you want to talk about? I can shed a little bit of light on this.

erin 12:25

Yeah, I mean, I know I've shared that my mother passed away. And when I was watching this and I talked to Tanya and I always, we always talk about how we do like a pre game show, like before, like pre game parking lot party. So we always talk a little bit before and I told her like when I first watched the show, I, Was shocked or taken aback at how much It felt familiar to me because you know, my parents were married for 35 years when my mom passed away and after My mom passed away my dad found Like some information on to join the peace corps and he ended up doing the whole process of joining the peace corps and Was gone for I think about You Two years and then he did some traveling then reenlisted somewhere else, but where he was really far He was like on in Tonga and then he went to Vanuatu. I always say he was doing The survivor tour all past survivor episodes but it was difficult because Then you know, we lost our mother and then we In a sense, lost her father, too, because we couldn't really communicate with him while he was gone, because there's not really, he didn't really have, he didn't have access to email or phone calls where he was located, so it would be. Uh, sporadically, if he was in a location, if he went to a location that had it or, you know, letters took a lot longer. So it was difficult, you know, like during that period. And then when there was the reconnection, I also felt with Jackson because when my mother was alive, there was a lot of the I don't want to say like I didn't have a relationship with my dad, but. It was more with my mom, like it was almost like my mom and dad had a relationship, and then we, or I felt like it was like we had a relationship with dad, my dad. But it was never just I had a relationship with my dad, like I never really felt like there was the, I knew who he was, but I didn't really know him as a person, as an individual, as my parent, as a lot of people have the memories or the, oh yeah, my dad likes this or that. And it's like, I didn't really know, I knew facts. About him, but I didn't really know who he was. And so I did not know who my dad was until he Even when he came back from His peace corps like after he had been gone for a few years and he came back it was like reintroducing myself to him because He had left and I think it like looking back, you know, it's been over 20 years since my mom passed away. So looking back, it's, I know that this was his way of grieving because they were, they had, were very much in love. And like, you know, even though it was like a little crazy at times, like very, I always say it was like, like Lucy and Ricky Ricardo sometimes, you know, like just like it's very nutty sometimes, but. I think for him to process, because he's not a, he's not a big emotional person where you're going to be like, Oh, let me wear it all in my sleeves. It's very pragmatic, you know, just. And so I think it was important for him to do this and it was very different than his character with my mom because they weren't like joining the Peace Corps together Also, it helped me When he came back, cause I did have a little bit of, I don't know if it was resentment, but I did have a little bit of, yeah, I did have resentment when he was gone because I was a little bit annoyed at first that he, yeah, that he left, that he sold the house we lived in, that he got rid of all her stuff. And it was just like to process, I think for him is to help process, but it's like, I felt like Jackson too. It's like, wait a minute. It was like, I lost my mom. And I know you lost your wife. But you know, what about me? What about us? You know, my siblings? What about your role

tayna 16:15

as a father and Yeah. In this grief? Yeah.

erin 16:17

So it's like, you're just, you know, and I'd, You know, it's hard for me not to think like, it was kind of selfish because he had kids and it was, You know, and yeah, we weren't children, but we still were kids, you know, I, it's, you know, we're still as kids, you know, like, it's just, yeah, but so it did feel almost like we were being abandoned. To grieve my mom with each other and we're all scattered. My siblings are all scattered different states and to try to figure this out, like and we've never done this before, you know, we never lost a parent before, my dad never lost a spouse before, so it would have, like, I guess it would have been healthier, like, you know, like in some sense if we all came together, but I think we all were forced to grieve separate and Then years later, we did come together and my dad, years later, said like, you know, talked about his grief and how going did help him grieve and how, you know, it just took up until just a few years ago that I started seeing pictures of her in his house again. I mean, I think it was just too difficult for him. And I think it was just almost too difficult to say, you know, I lost this person who I love so much and But never really saying like, how did that affect you guys? Like, that must have been really difficult, too.

tayna 17:37

He didn't connect with you on, as a parent, to say, how was this loss for you? Instead, he kind of was processing as self, but not really in a parental way. Yeah. His role and, I mean, it may have been tough for him, but it was tough for you, as well, not having that connection or support, not even having the possibility of it.

erin 17:55

Yeah, because that's. Yeah, because that's, like, we had a relationship with her, and, you know, and I know he did too. And. Some of it was the same and some was different and it's just yeah And so I did very much relate to both characters and I think that's why when I was watching this I'm like, wow, this isn't just a comedy for me. I'm really getting all the feelings while I'm watching this show Because they're talking about, you know, like compound grief, You know, the different relationships with parents and children. And it was just really a lot that I was like, whew, I haven't unpacked all this. And so I really, it really felt very familiar to me.

tayna 18:34

Yeah, understandably. I mean, that definitely sounds like, you know, kind of being with a reconnecting with a parent who has to process in their own way. And you have to almost kind of understand that, which is kind of a reversal of, you know, the parent understanding. A child, right? And kind of taking on that role. And so I think that very much is comparable to Ellis and Jackson, you know, with the way he, Jackson, when he comes back, he's just like, uh, like, he's got to kind of ground everything. He's got to try and figure something out, but then you also see points where Ellis is trying to, you know, he thinks he's trying to help Jackson greed by being like, like, it's kind of pointed out to him, like, oh, he might need help as well. And he's like, Trying all these ways that are not very helpful, like, with the peanut butter and, you know, how his mom, it's the last batch and he's like, you know, you're, you just don't want it because it's too sad. And he's kind of trying to connect, but not really in a, in an organic way. Yeah.

erin 19:32

And yeah, I know it's another thing too, is like the. Getting to know your parent too, because it's like, I feel like now. I mentioned it's been like, you know, over 20 years or it's. But now I notice. That I'm starting to get to know my dad, like, I'll talk to him on the phone. It's not just like, Hey, okay. Talk to you later. But now it's actually like having,

tayna 19:55

I'm hearing that and being like, that's what I sound like

erin 19:59

I said, no, but it is, but you know, but now it's actually having a conversation though. You know, we're laughing and, you know, it's like just actually having conversations, which is so nice. And it's, you know, sometimes, of course, he still aggravates the heck out of me but I think it is a lot because I didn't know him for, you know, a big chunk of my life. Yeah, you know, he lived there. He was, you know, he was a present father. But. His relationship was more with my mom than it was with me for a lot of it. And I think that was also my mom's doing. My mom was very, you know, that's, I think we've talked about that. Like my mom. It was very much into, you know, her

tayna 20:37

Yeah. She was kind of the center. The center was her.

erin 20:41

Yeah.

tayna 20:42

So we're, oh my gosh. Yeah, we could definitely devote hours and hours to that. We might, one day we might just kind of go all for it. But mothers yeah, that would just be, well, mothers. Well, there's days coming up right, right now, but yeah maybe not this year. But I, yeah, and I think that's really interesting because you wonder what was it about. Ellis's wife and Jackson's mom, you know, that maybe she kind of noticed that they were inherently different. Maybe there was something else. We don't really know. There's not really an indication of that, but there was something that. Yeah. You know, kind of buffered them with her presence and with that gone you know, and it's interesting because I actually just thought of this. Her best friend comes back, Jean, and she ultimately is, uh, you know, again, big spoiler alert, but Jean is the one who is behind. She's on the board and she's sent there under the guise of trying to help, you know, or just be with Jackson and really she's trying to. Ellis off the board, right? And I'm wondering if that is maybe some form of connection with the mom. Like maybe they, she feels like that would have been what, you know, her best friend would have wanted, you know, Ellis's ex wife, or I don't know because it's not really clear.

erin 21:58

I was actually thinking she was almost feeling like it was her not responsibility, but her Right to take, you know, because oh, well, we're best friends. So now what was hers was mine in a sense So I have the right to make this decisions I get the right to you know, have this relationship with her son and do you know take over? So that's what I was but I could have been I could have been watching it completely with different lenses

tayna 22:26

No, I mean, it very well could have been. I don't, I really don't know. Like, I'm kind of interested if anybody else has any takes on that because I was a little bit, I, and I know there's supposed to be the season two, so maybe we'll find out about that, but I don't know if it was, maybe she was just a very selfish kind of person and just kind of felt entitled to all of this. She did ultimately end up, you know, hurting Jackson as well, because she came there under the guise of being close to him. And ultimately she was just trying to get. You know, so it was, she's very kind of selfish and sneaky in that regard.

erin 22:58

Yeah. And then you wonder too, was she ever best friends with this person or was she best friends with this person? And she's grieving and she's not really sure, you know, this was her best friend. Again, every single person that we interact with that, you know, like has a different relationship with, you know, with somebody. Yeah, you know, it's it's, you know, so who knows, you know, I'd like to believe that she is good, but we don't know.

tayna 23:25

Yeah and the, yeah, and I guess, like you said, like, every person is kind of acting. Possibly from points of view of grief, even though it comes off as eccentric, unstable, weird, selfish, you know, all these other, like, distant, whatever it is.

erin 23:41

Anxious, like, you know, Jackson has a lot of anxiety and it shows up different ways, but yeah, people. You don't know. Grief shows up so many different ways.

tayna 23:51

Yeah, that, that may kind of be a takeaway from this. Like, I'm always trying to find takeaways, even though I know we're just discussing, but to me, it kind of seems like after just discussing this it just kind of occurs to me how many different points of view And how many different possible reactions to grief there really was that could have just been misinterpreted as someone's character, you know,

erin 24:13

yeah, because it is, it's not just the typical stages of grief. And I know a lot of people think like, okay, well, you know, was I angry? Was I sad? Was I resentful? Was I bargaining? Not everyone goes through that. Yeah. Some people just. Act like everything's fine. It's fine. Then they might have like a huge reaction like years later or months later because it still shows up. Or they might get depressed or they might get anxious. They might just sit in the room and cry with, you know, with Patsy Cline playing, looking at old pictures. Or they might just, you know, like process it. They might talk to a therapist. They might exercise a lot. You don't know. What everyone's going through just because they might look okay on the outside, or they might look unstable.

tayna 24:52

Right? And I think that's maybe that's the point of this is to show that although Ellis does not give a great ending to this, because at the end, he is able to save his position in the company, he, you know, has his breakthrough and so that ultimately secures his place in the company. And he immediately fires Gene, the friend who tried to get him off and which is kind of, I mean, that's understandable. But then he. Uh, there's a scene where he is blowing up her car, and so it's that's not really great. That's a little, that's very much an overreaction. So you're maybe he is, there's a lot of stuff going on with him, but. we don't really, I don't know. We don't really know. There's just all these different perspectives on how people are managing.

erin 25:34

And again, it's a show. We're not supporting this. We're not, that's not a proper way to, to grieve, but but yeah, but I did like though that he did start talking about his wife and they both talked about like their mother and their wife and, you know, the relationship and that they were grieving. And.

tayna 25:53

And connecting.

erin 25:54

Yeah, and connecting. And I, and it's funny, because the connection was, they both really said Gene was portraying both of them. Yeah. Yeah. That's

tayna 26:04

true. Yeah, and I mean, I. I wonder if there is, you know, if there is the season two that comes out, if there's going to be more of a development with Jackson and possibly Luna and him finding his own way with that and where Ellis is going to go, because he did just blow up a car. Yeah. Trace back, yeah,

erin 26:28

and then, like, also finding for Jackson, maybe finding his own voice and finding his own who he is, because it is difficult having a parent that is so bright. And everyone is drawn to them, you know, like, you, you mentioned to, like, in our pregame bright, like the sun.

tayna 26:46

Yeah,

erin 26:46

everyone's drawn to them.

tayna 26:48

Yeah, that's what Jackson says. He's like, you're like the sun. It's not that you're doing this on purpose, but everyone is just attracted to you and that. That does something to me, you know, as the person in the shadows.

erin 26:59

Yeah, it's hard to, it's hard to follow sometimes and sometimes as A child of the brightest parent, or having parents that are very outgoing, it is difficult if you're not as outgoing or you're quieter.

tayna 27:13

Right? Yeah, it can be. It can be an odd comparison that, you know, instead of people talking about your kid and, you know, they're talking about. Uh, parents, yeah, they're like, oh, yeah, what did your parent do? And you're like, well, I'm the 1 that's like, you know. Shouldn't you be asking about me? Yeah, or you're

erin 27:29

so and so's kid or you're

tayna 27:31

yeah, I know. I

erin 27:32

know you because of right? Yeah.

tayna 27:35

Yeah. It's a very strange dynamic. I don't much relate to it. I don't have like, my, my mom was kind of very much, you know, center stage, but she also had a very shy side to her, but I never. I don't know to me, I was like, I don't want that. I was very much, you know, I don't think it was that much. It wasn't really the same dynamic. Yeah, I don't think

erin 27:56

I came from 2 extremely outgoing parents. So, it's, you know, it's our, you know, it's my, yeah, but my mom was. There wasn't like she was friends with everybody in the world and my dad, I always say, like, he's mayor of wherever he lives because they're both extremely outgoing. extroverted personalities. So for me I don't always want to be extroverted sometimes I do but it's it is difficult if you come from a family with very loud outgoing personalities or very extroverted personalities and you're like, uh, Maybe I don't want to be center of attention Yeah, maybe it's too

tayna 28:34

much. It's just not

erin 28:35

you.

tayna 28:36

Yeah, for sure. And I think that's just kind of one of the many, uh, you know, maybe disconnects things that they have to, the father son have to keep working on Ellis and Jackson. And you know, and it is let's point out the obvious. It is really, if you're a Rob Lowe fan, it's really cool to see him working with his real life son. You know, like that's a really cool dynamic.

erin 28:55

And holy camoly. I know he does all those Atkin commercials, but this guy, holy cow. I mean, he's like, He has to be like almost 60. Yeah. He looks like he's seriously like 30. It's crazy. He's lovely. He just says, it's

tayna 29:10

lovely. Rob Lowe is just like, uh, I don't know. He's a forever beauty. He's just,

erin 29:16

He's just, yeah, it's just an anomaly. It's a really strange, like, just cause you see the other people from like the Rat Pack or whatever, the Brat Pack, not the Rat Pack. That was Frank Sinatra and that group. But but the Brat Pack, like, like he seems like he's aged like the best.

tayna 29:31

Yeah, and it really is not I mean, like, this is my own personal opinion, not really knowing much on this, so my completely crappy, uneducated opinion, but I, he doesn't look like he's had, like, any plastic surgery done? No! Like, he has very minimal, I don't know.

erin 29:45

Yeah, because I watch him on that show, like, the floor, and it doesn't seem like, you know, he looks like he's aging, but it doesn't look like he's, like, yeah, it doesn't look like he's all, like, Pulled doesn't like his face is all pulled back. Yeah.

tayna 30:00

Weird. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, I mean, I, we're just, I'm just saying that about celebrities that go too far.

erin 30:06

Yeah. There's a lot that are just like, you're like, whew, stop it. Like, yeah, I could think of a few.

tayna 30:12

Yeah it's, yeah, but he's a he's just a sight. I enjoy looking at him and watching him and his son has like somebody kind of some similar, I wonder if they have a similar dynamic in real life. If it's, you know, because Pablo is so well known and, you know, and not to say like John Owen, you know, he's, he was a great act. He's a great actor. And I think he was really good. He even directed this along with his dad. But I wonder if there's maybe been some similar feelings that they could really relate to, right?

erin 30:38

Yeah, and maybe that is, I mean, I don't know if they wrote it too. I know they produced it, but there, there probably is a lot of similarities. I know I watched the, I can't remember what the show was. There was a show with Rob Lowe and his two sons and they were like traveling and stuff like that. They're filming it. I think it was only on for like 1 season, but it was kind of neat to watch the different dynamics between the 3 of them.

tayna 31:02

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. No I mean, I thought it was nice show. I would definitely watch the 2nd season. I think there's some really interesting dynamics. Some I thought it was pretty funny too. I think it had some funny. Yeah, it was really funny.

erin 31:16

It was a good show. I thought it was really well written and I thought it was neat too, because you don't usually. I don't usually picture I know he probably has. I think he did. Like, was it the community or something like that? Or so I did.

tayna 31:29

Yeah,

erin 31:30

I didn't see it, but I don't really usually think of Rob Lowe as a comic. I always still because again, I'm stuck in like 1980 something. I, sometimes I still, I always think of like, say, novels, fire and stuff like that. And outsiders and, But it is hard for me to think of him as a comedian, but he's really funny.

tayna 31:48

He is. And he's got such a, it's like an endearing humor, I think, you know, it's really like, he can kind of say anything and he's, you know, let's face it, the man's like, he is gorgeous. Okay. And you know, Tanya does not hide her crushes. I'm sure. I don't. He's beautiful. He's lovely. I mean, just look at him. He is, I don't know. He is he's, I don't know. He's a sight. And you know, I think that sometimes that can kind of take away from the humor, but I think it just, it adds a charm to it for him. And that's kind of a rare quality, at least in, in my opinion. So I don't, I really, I love that with him. And I think he is. Very funny. He can deliver very well. Yeah. So, yeah. So this was a really we liked this series. Check it out. It wasn't really, I think it kind of flew under the radar. I didn't really hear much about it. But

erin 32:35

yeah, and it does have, and it does have some nice mental health components. I mean, yeah, I know. What is it, what is his name? Fred? Yeah he's so funny, but he's not a good depiction of what a real therapist is, but he's such a funny actor, but it's, it is nice though that it does. They do talk about mental health themes that do need to be talked about. And yeah.

tayna 33:01

Yeah, doesn't portray them very well, like boundaries and

erin 33:05

yeah,

tayna 33:05

And wanted to

erin 33:07

wanted to have some days with your client and just becoming friends and that's you

tayna 33:11

And then yeah, a part of getting him off the board in the end. Like, it was just a weird dynamic. Yeah.

erin 33:16

So many ethical violations.

tayna 33:19

Yeah, but it was, I mean, it was fun. We like, you know, I would recommend

erin 33:23

it

tayna 33:23

recommend that for therapy, but, you know, as a therapist, but whatever it was so, yeah, I, uh, you know, we, and we don't have, we're not advertising for Netflix. We just love this, you know, we just looking at different shows or when we're saying, check it out. It's just because we liked it.

erin 33:37

Yeah. And we always say this, but if you have any, if there's a show or a movie or anything that you've seen, or that you want. Yeah. As to maybe talk about that might have a psychological or mental health, or there's a really good therapist in it, like, you know, there's, you know, like, there's some shows that have like a really good therapy. Portrayal, like, you know, I always think of, like, you know, certain shows, I'm like, wow, they did it right or this one's so off. Yeah, that might be fun for us to talk

tayna 34:05

about too. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Let us know. But yeah, we hope you enjoyed this and don't forget to leave us comments. Let us know if you have suggestions for future episodes, whether it's a movie or not, you know, or series or not. We like other ideas as well. Yeah, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapist. On Facebook, we are The Wicked Psychotherapist. Subscribe and follow wherever you can listen to podcasts. We're everywhere.

erin 34:35

We are. You, yeah, you can even go on the web and watch or listen.

tayna 34:38

Yes. We are just, we're ubiquitous. That's the SAT word of the day. Oh, I

erin 34:43

like that

tayna 34:43

for everywhere. All right. Well, yeah. Leave us a review. Leave us any suggestions. We'd love to hear from you, but thanks for listening and don't forget, stay wicked. And keep your mind well. Okay.

erin 34:55

Well, bye. Bye. All right, guys. Take care. We'll see you next time

34:59

We Wish You a Merry Christmas I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm going to do it anyway.