Wicked Psychotherapists

Navigating Seasonal Affective Feelings and Mental Wellness- Encore Episode

• Erin Gray and Tanya Dos Santos • Season 2 • Episode 13

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 In this episode of 'Wicked Psychotherapists', the hosts delve into seasonal affective feelings, focusing on how the change in seasons, especially during winter, can impact mental health and overall well-being. 

 They discuss the importance of recognizing the shift in energy and mood that many people experience with shorter days and less sunlight. 

 The conversation covers the significance of being proactive about mental health during these times, considering both psychological and medical aspects, like checking vitamin D levels. 

They share personal experiences and strategies for coping with seasonal changes, including the use of light therapy and establishing routines that incorporate sunlight exposure. 

 The episode aims to provide listeners with insights and tips on managing seasonal affective feelings, emphasizing the importance of early intervention and the potential benefits of consulting with professionals for those significantly affected.

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Tanya:

Today, we are going to dive into the world of seasonal affective, and I'm not going to say disorder because we're not necessarily talking about the disorder itself, we're just talking about how, you know, with the low light of winter, and the shift of seasons around this time of year that we are recording this, which is in December. We see a lot of people, and we talk to a lot of people, and we probably ourselves experience a shift in feelings and behaviors and just overall well being. So we wanted to talk a little bit about that because there is some, um, really important points. I think it affects a lot of people, and it's a significant thing, especially if you live in an area where, you know, there is a lot of, it, it gets, you know, dark really early and you don't really get to see that much, uh, sunlight because maybe you live in, you know, a northern climate. If you're in the states or just kind of in general, right, you know that there's a coldness and, you know, there, there may not be opportunities to kind of get outside or get that sunlight. So we thought we would talk about that and. Because obviously there is impact on mental health and wellness overall, and it's actually something that I think is not discussed too often, and it can have a pretty big impact for a large amount of time throughout the year. So we thought we'd dive right in with some of that stuff. Let's get into it. The first thing I think we maybe want to start to discuss is, you know, what are some things that you've heard about some experiences of seasonal affective or seasonal affective disorder, whatever the category may be, but you know, their moods or their lives are changed by the season shifting in the winter time. What's been your experience with hearing about it and what others say?

erin:

Well, in Florida, it's a little different, because I'm in, I am located in Florida, so Tanya and I had talked a little bit before our episode that I might see it a little bit at a different time of year, but actually even now in Florida, it starts to get darker earlier than it had, but not, like right now, we start to get dark around 5. 36pm. Which is, it does really interfere with your day as far as you go to work and it's still dark because it's dark about You know, it's still dark until about 7 o'clock, 730 in the morning And then if you're coming home about 5 or so It's still dark and that could really affect people as far as oh, haven't seen any Sun I wasn't able to take a walk at lunch or I wasn't able to Be outside and that could affect people. They might not notice it right away, but as the winter months progress and people start to get a little bit sad, or they start just having a shift in their, I don't want to say personality, but they just start. It's shifting their mood.

Tanya:

Yeah, for sure. There's definitely, I think their energy levels and their mood really start to get affected. And I can definitely say I, I've definitely experienced that. I mean, we're, you know, not to get too tactical, but we're mammals and we're designed to hibernate in the winter. Right. You know, so obviously we can't do that as humans. Well, I mean. Most of us can't I don't know maybe some people can but if you can let me know what you're doing out there I don't know. It's kind of interesting Yeah, we want to know what's going on there. What's your life like but but I Think that you know, it's that I a lot of people I'll see just client wise maybe like, you know I don't know, you know, I know that there's this pattern that I get this but I can't really pinpoint the slide into it I just know that I have low energy. I feel You really depressed. I'm kind of more irritable and I just feel kind of icky. I just don't really want to do anything. And, you know, I've, I think that this can be a clue, a hint that, you know, especially if there's the feeling that it's around the wintertime and it is something that occurs to you. Probably every year that you probably are being affected by the seasonal change, but, you know, in terms of, you know, people managing it, it can be a little bit trickier because I think I've had to reframe the way that people look at this with some of my clients or just people asking, like, I've had people ask me just randomly, like friends or, you know, people, you know, On social media, who I may not have talked to in years, but are like, Hey, I heard you're a therapist, you know, kind of say, are you, you know, if what do you recommend for this and a lot of times it's about, I think, understanding that if you know this is a pattern, you have to be proactive. about going into this low light season and about understanding that you really have to develop a plan even before this starts to happen, which is a bit different, right, than, you know, kind of understanding maybe other types of mental health disorders where you may not have that cue, that indication, but this is a very strong indication, you know, when the seasons change, it's all around us. So this is actually going to be. pretty helpful in determining that. Yeah,

erin:

and having them rule out medical is always the first thing too. Maybe make sure, you know, have them get their blood levels tested. I have heard people even here, Florida, utilize the light therapy, you know, for the different, Seasons when they are indoors more or they are noticing that they are affected, but always rule out medical first to see how you're, you know, if your vitamin D is low or something, you know, to. So that's something with your thyroid. Yeah.

Tanya:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that goes for a lot of mental health disorders. I think we kind of say, Hey, have you gotten this checked out first? Because they can kind of mimic other things. But especially for this, we don't necessarily want to Assume that it's solely based on just, you know, psychological elements that it very much like, you know, like you were saying, could be low vitamin D levels from not being able to get sun or other medical causes, underlying causes. So, you know, when it comes to this type of thing, have you yourself experienced? Any of these symptoms or kind of felt like, you know, it's maybe in a different form, like we were talking before about, you know, how Florida may be different in warmer clients versus me being in New England. But how has your experience been with this? I

erin:

actually kind of felt like I experienced a little bit of the seasonal effect of not disorder, but I felt like I. We had a little bit of shift this summer because in Florida, we had some unusually high temperatures this year where it was like 106 to 116 and you felt like your skin was going to burn off just being outside for five seconds. So it felt like months of not being outside during COVID. Anytime the sun was out because it was just too hot and too bright. So I noticed I was getting a little edgy, a little more annoyed, just choosing to take more naps. It was just, I noticed a lot less energy this summer and with the days that it did get cooler and especially when fall started it, I noticed, okay, well I feel happier. I actually heard the same reaction from a lot of my clients as well who were like, Oh, You know, I've noticed I have more energy, I'm feeling a shift and I said, yeah, because it's getting cooler out and we can be outside when the sun is out. And I asked him, how long do you think you were spending outside before versus now? And there was a difference. And I noticed myself, like I, I try to now that it's, uh, not so hot and it's like At my lunch break, I'll try to go for a walk. I try to spend like a half hour each day, you know, just going for a walk with Paige, and I notice that I feel like I have more energy when being outside, even if it's a little chilling, you know, because our chili is different than your chili. It's like, 45 today. But so it is a little cold, but not your chili. But I do, I try, I'm trying to force myself to be outside in the sun, just so I can have some of those benefits of the sun.

Tanya:

Yeah, that totally is. I, and that's really interesting because it almost sounds like extremes in weather can be. drive us into similar behaviors in terms of wanting to stay in, not wanting to engage, and those can be, those can have effects on your body and your mental health, and I have experienced, oddly enough, I, you know, when I've lived in New England, because I had, I did live in Florida before, but when I lived in New England, I feel like I experienced Summer seasonal affective disorder where I, it hasn't been recently, but it was for a while where I just did not, the thought of going out in the weather and in the hotness and with the bugs and seeing other people doing all these fun things and feeling like, oh, I should want to go out, but I really did not was. Something, it was really, it was kind of doing something to me at certain points in terms of my mental state. And I actually have, I've known a couple of other people, friends who've, who felt this way as well. And I'm wondering if that may be the weather patterns of New England. They shifted where, I think we had one of the hottest summers recently. Yeah,

erin:

it looked like it was kind of brutal this year and I remember you telling us that it was. Yeah. Yeah

Tanya:

it very much is. I mean, but you know, now I am, the past couple of years I've been feeling a little better and with that and just kind of realizing, you know, and taking some steps towards, you know, balancing that out a little bit, but I, I do when it comes to the winter time here, I actually, I kind of take the cat approach where I will, when I first wake up, it's been noted that getting, you know, Some sunlight in the first hour of your waking also helps to set your circadian rhythm. I heard that from Dr. Huberman. I love him. So shout out, Dr. Huberman. I love you and your beard. You look like a superhero and I love how smart you are. But he's a, you know, yes, he is. He's so he's, he works. I'm going to, I'm going to butcher. Oh man, I'm sorry, Dr. Huberman, but I know you are. I think, I believe a neurophysiologist and I believe you work, you are at some fancy college or university in California. So you are very reputable, but I'm sorry, but I don't, I'm not recalling at this moment in time. I usually can on any given day, but it's just, it's slipping my mind. Um, yeah, go ahead.

erin:

It's interesting because I've also read like when waking hours, like when you first wake up is really good time to meditate. Because of the same reason. Because, you know, your circadian rhythm is, you know, you're still in that sleep mode, kind of, too, and so, I wonder if it had double benefit if you do it in a ray of sunshine. Like, something for, like, if you and your cat.

Tanya:

Yeah, that's really, that would be pretty cool, but I like to sit in the, because it is freezing out in the winter, I like to sit in the, near this window where I can see the sun, and I sit. Yeah. Like a cat by the, like by the window and get sun and I will read or just have my coffee and I'll get the sun in and you know, let my dog out, watch her play kind of things. And I'll pop outside, you know, even if it's like really cold, but I'll kind of get the window approach. So that's what I like to do to kind of get that sunlight in the morning.

erin:

Either a cat or a. Crazy woman in every horror movie.

Tanya:

Yes, and I do picture myself as such. Because I, I've often thought my house, the way that it's located, it's kind of elevated on, like, above the rest of my neighbors. And I've often thought, what if they look out the window, and they can clearly see me just looking out, like, still in my Frumpy pajamas and with like just staring out the window and I mean, I must look terrifying, you know, because I don't think I look too great. Really in the morning or, you know, really just, you know, yeah, let's just say in the morning. Okay,

erin:

we all need to know. Is it a rocking chair? Yeah. Oh, I would love that. With a blanket over you like that.

Tanya:

That's um, that's a dream of mine. I've often told my husband that I would like a rocking chair and I wish I could crochet. And just add in, yeah, I can't crochet to save my life. I've tried. But yeah, so, so there are those preventatives towards being able to try and help out with that and be able to try to get that sunshine. It said that even if it's like a cloudy or overcast day to still go outside because you're still getting the benefits of the, the clouded sun, even if, you know, you don't, you don't Feel like you are being able to get up as, as early as possible. Again, these are all kind of circumstantial to your life, but I, and yeah, I've heard of those, the light boxes, the like happy box, I think is a brand that I've heard a lot of people say that they really like.

erin:

I had, I had, I knew someone when I lived in New England that had, I don't know if they had seasonal affective disorder or they just were affected by the different season, but they had to, they must have seasonal affective disorder because they are prescribed. To sit, you know, in the, in, like, have the box, the light box, with, you know, like, on for a half hour a day or something like that. But it really works. It worked. It's, you know, from going to, from major depression symptoms, to be able to be happy without the use of medication, by just using the light box, is pretty amazing. I mean, I'm not prescribing this to anybody, but I'm just saying this is what I saw. My friend.

Tanya:

Yeah, I think it can work for some people. Some people may need, you know, it's recommended. You know, to have cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the, you know, working on your thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and how the three of those correlate and, or, and, or some people maybe medication could be beneficial. Again, we're not saying that, you know, for you to run out and do these things, we're just saying these are some of the recommendations that may be made if you consult with professionals. I have talked to people about happy boxes or light boxes because they already, they had them and they wanted to try them. And so, you know, kind of that type of thing. And yeah, they, some have seen success. Some need, you know, kind of some treatment plans with their doctors, but yeah, it really depends on what works for you. And there is a, there is an official diagnosis. If you do meet this criteria of, you know, it would be diagnosed as a major depression with like a seasonal, Pattern, you know, that's kind of what the diagnosis would be if it's something that is a continued demonstrated, you know, that you continue to have this and that you meet all the criteria of it. And you see

erin:

it happening every, you know, like in New England, you always notice, okay, when the time changes. And it starts getting darker earlier, if you're in the warmer months and you notice, okay, wait, it's always August, or it's all, you know, or something.

Tanya:

Yeah, and they, I mean, actually, it's really good, I think, to start to implement some of these. You know, almost like you're storing up for the winter kind of thing, like you're a squirrel, you know, and to start to say, okay, if I use my light box or whatever, then I need to start, you know, around fall time, you know, and kind of start to, when I know the light starting to get a little bit, you know, less and less as we slide into winter and starting to, you know, set up a routine where maybe I can take a walk at lunch, or I can get up early and kind of do some of that cat. Scary lady bathing or whatever, you know, whatever your preference is for that. Yeah.

erin:

I mean, it's just, and I think that's a great idea too, because vitamin D is stored as a hormone. It, you know, and it's, they say it takes a few months for it to get completely depleted. So it makes sense to start early and also to start having the routine, have it become a habit by time the darker months come or the colder months come. So you're already used to walking at lunch with your colleagues or home with your dog.

Tanya:

Yeah, because I think it can be tough if say like a client comes to you and they're, you know, it's say it's December, January, right. And they're in the throes of feeling the effects of this. And you start to recommend these things. I mean, part of the symptoms that are experienced is, is lack of energy or motivation, low mood. You're not really going to want to set this up. So you really want to set this up for yourself proactively. I mean, that really is your best chance at being able to say, okay, I can move through this a little bit better. I have had some people, and I'm not talking about clients, but some people say that it's tough for them to start to set that up. And I just say, well, try and think of how hard it was in the winter and think of, you know, this could be five minutes a day that I'm doing. And I know that's not the answer everyone wants to hear, but unfortunately, this is what we have to do. Apparently, whether you live anywhere, right, you know, because you really can't experience it in different forms, but, you know, especially if you live in, I think as mammals, we tend to probably experience it more with the cold and the winter, but like Erin was pointing out, it definitely. Can happen in, in other areas as well and in different ways that, you know, I think it, it just has to, you have to really come to a routine for yourself that works and setting that up.

erin:

Yeah, and it is smart to, especially if you know the time of year where you're most affected, Tanya mentioned starting like six weeks or something, or even sooner, further back if you can. So you have this routine. You have this.

Tanya:

Yeah, it's it is. It's really I think that's the number one thing and that's not to say you can't do anything once you're in the throes of it. If you're like, just realizing it. I mean, there are things, but it just may be harder motivation wise, energy wise, because when you're, you know, in the thick of something, it's harder to, to see, you know, when you're in a dark tunnel, it's hard to see the light. You know, and it's hard to recognize it

erin:

too. It's hard to recognize the symptoms if you're the person experiencing.

Tanya:

Yeah. And I do want to point out that people do experience these symptoms and some people it affects them and it, but it doesn't affect them to the point where they are It's disabling towards them or it's something that's causing them anything that is of any concern. And we're not trying to say that if you have these symptoms, this is anything big. This is just an informational, casual talk about this because this is, sometimes this is something that somebody will seek out therapy for, which is totally fine. If it's, you know, something that's causing them a lot of symptoms and something that feels like it's, you know, Inhibit in inhibiting their life or their lifestyle, but other people may experience it. Like, I have plenty of people in my personal life that they, you know, they're like, oh, it sucks, you know, but it's not something. It's not something that really inhibits them, right? You know, it's I can still find some benefit and and this and and it doesn't really bother them. So I just wanted to make that distinction because not everybody that experiences this is really affected. Adversely by it. You know, it's it may still affect you, but it may not be to the point where it's for concern cause for concern. So that's kind of that's that I think is something we wanted to address because it is definitely a trend around typically. Winter time, and I'm going to say typically because obviously there's other forms, um, in New England and in northern areas around the world, and I do know this is a very strange fact that just popped in my head randomly, but I do know that in some other cultures, this can be celebrated, and I think I'm thinking of I want to say like, like Norwegian esque, like around there, that there's a lot of light displays, a lot of lights for this very reason, to be able to kind of feel like this is something that can kind of combat some of that darkness. And I think that may be why a lot of people do enjoy You know, Christmas displays and light displays in general, you know, doesn't necessarily have to be Christmas related, but just displays of lights and everything, because it does bring, you know, a little bit of feeling of, like, it's not completely dark out there. And that can be something to kind of carry you through and get you through. And there's people who enjoy winter sports, right? You know, and who are like, yeah, this is, you know, whatever this, if this brings the snow or if this brings the cold weather that I need. Yeah. That may be something that's really motivating for them. Is there anything you like to do kind of like in the winter or something? So I mean, and, and just in, in all this, just to talk about winter time or, you know, the time when it's kind of tough for you or there's low light, what are some things that you like to do yourself or with your family that kind of helps to, you know, get by?

erin:

Okay. Well, I noticed. Maybe this is just any time. I have to limit my social media because like, I don't really want to see a bunch of people doing a lot of things in beach area or wherever else, whatever is opposite or something. Sometimes it could not help my situation. I will get, if I notice I'm really low, I might get my, if I haven't had my blood work in a while, I might get my blood work. I do take vitamin D. So, I will make sure that I'm taking my vitamin D, and I'm taking it the proper way, because I do notice when I take it, it helps, because I tend to run a little bit low, and that could be, but I'm inside most of the day, you know, since my job is an inside job, and then when it's dark outside, it's, harder to get more, you know, sunshine. I try to, you know, I try to go outside. I take cage fur walks. I garden when it's not super hot out or too dark out. So I'm, I try to be a little more conscious to sunshine. I'll sit in the window and frighten Children. No, just kidding!

Tanya:

That's my job, okay? I'm the street witch. Yeah, that's really me making that noise at the beginning of our intro.

erin:

I just recorded Tanya one afternoon. She did not know.

Tanya:

I was just like, one morning, I was like, Just, you know, let me have my coffee and I'll just record it. It's just my normal day, you know, just scaring kids. scaring everybody in the neighborhood, you know? No, but it sounds like you do, I just want to say you do a lot. Wow. That's like, that's really impressive. I don't think my list is anywhere near as extensive. I just know

erin:

because like with the vitamin D and stuff, I know mine got really low. I actually got so down a wormhole. I bought a couple books, learn about vitamin D. I just like, because low D can affect so much and sunshine is vitamin D. And so I was noticing, cause I even get like the hand pain and different, like the joint pain. I noticed like if my D is low. And so I noticed I have to like, I'm really bad about taking vitamins, so I have to remember, like, oh yeah, I should be taking it. It's, I haven't been, especially in the summer, which again, is very ironic, but. Because we're taught, don't go outside when it's so bright out, because you'll get skin cancer, but then also if it's 116 out, you're going to burn almost instantly, or die. You'll pass out. Yeah,

Tanya:

kind of.

erin:

So it's hard to be outside. So yeah, so I do try, and I notice like, I've just really started to implement, This week and last week, the walking at lunch and that really has been helping my mood a lot.

Tanya:

That's awesome. And I do want to point out that, you know, like Erin said, vitamin D is a hormone. You really want to be careful with that. You don't just want to start dosing like Erin has done her research on that and she's obviously gotten, you know, medical consultation with that and understands that really well. Because I actually, I, I did start taking and please don't be like this, which, but I definitely started taking vitamin D because I thought my levels were low and I did not get any kind of like medical, you know, blood work or anything like that. Um, I did eventually get medical work and there was nothing that was found to be wrong, but the vitamin D, the supplements, and I tried various other ones, it really affected me in a very adverse way. I don't know if it was just that there was something else going on there. Maybe I was kind of giving myself too much accidentally, but it really affected my mood because it is a hormone, you know, and that may have been from other factors. That were in my life, you know at that point, but just to be careful with that Make sure you talk to your doctor because it is a hormone and you have to be careful,

erin:

too I know when I've had to try different because some of them will be like, oh, you know 500 milligram whatever or so many 10, 000 whatever milligram, whatever it is And then you look at the back,

Tanya:

yeah,

erin:

and then you look at the back and it's like, it's insane. It's like 5, 000 percent more than, it's like, no, I just want normal, just give me the 100%. And so that's, you just had, with any vitamin, it's just really bizarre how high they try to dose us. Yeah,

Tanya:

yeah, it really is. And you have, and you also have other foods that you may not realize how much are high in vitamin D that you're also intaking, so you're also getting that and yeah, just really get it checked out by your doctor and you know, because that's, that's something that can, yeah, for sure.

erin:

And sunshine. I feel like there's natural ways to get it too.

Tanya:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I don't, you know, me personally, for when, for low light, like I said, I do my cat witch thing, you know, in the window and that, that really, honestly, like, I have to say today, especially, I had an amazing, You know, whatever from my window session, right? Like I was like, the sun was, I don't know if it was just extra bright. It's been overcast the past couple of days, but I just felt it. And I was like, Ooh, I feel good. Like I felt the energy. I felt, you know, I was kind of, I, I like to, cause I'm a nerd. I like to read poems and have my coffee and sit by the window. So I look extra like You know, kind of creepy when I'm I don't think it's nerdy!

erin:

Do you have a, do you have a bonnet one?

Tanya:

Oh my gosh, I should add that to my repertoire. I really, I'm really missing out. I gotta add different hats, I know. Yeah, it's like Laura's bonnet

erin:

type of thing going on. Yeah, this is really,

Tanya:

this is really, this is gonna be a whole new thing now. I'm gonna have to dig out some hats and some garb for that. Yeah, I

erin:

think, and then, you know, then start wearing a bun, and yes, I love that you're, I love that you're wearing, that you're, I love that you're reading poetry.

Tanya:

I

erin:

love that I'm

Tanya:

scary, and I'm scaring the whole neighborhood.

erin:

I'm a little jealous though, because I don't have any, the way my house is, I have to go sit on my back patio. Of course. So, like, if I want the sun type of thing,

Tanya:

yeah, it's a very, I, I do have a pretty nice. Well, it's not nice actually, but I have a porch area and it's very dilapidated at the moment being forever worked on, but I do have this 1 window. That's just. It's just perfect and it is perfectly seeing, like, everyone in the neighborhood can kind of see if they look up. I don't know the angles of the sun, but I also have my in laws that. Live down the street and I very much like them. So I don't want to scare them, but I don't think they're up that early So I hope Anyways, so yeah, I do that and I do take my dog for walks and I try to eat You know like fresher like veggies and fruits. I think I kind of do that year round. Yeah, you know, I You know,

erin:

when whenever you talk about what you eat, you always say it sounds like you're very healthy. I do you have a Drink, you drink, and you know, you always seem very conscious about the foods you make.

Tanya:

It's a balance. It's a balance. I definitely have a lot of junk food I eat. Like I definitely had a sheet of brownies that Dino and I polished off in a short amount of time. I'm not going to say how short, but it was pretty short, you know. So we definitely, you know, try to balance that out. But yeah, that's what I try to do. And I just really try to think of, could I maybe get some sun doing this? You know, could I? Take care. you know, because we work from home and I do have a window right next to me that I don't get like direct sunlight, but I do sometimes when I'm, you know, because we work on the computer, I do like to look out when there's a lot of sun and to just kind of be like, Oh, that's nice. Oh, maybe I should go when I should like go outside and, you know, kind of remind myself in that way. So just, you know, little reminders like that, I think are really good. And, you know, being able to just kind of Keep up with that and also making sure that you're scheduling, you know, just that, that usual self care that, you know, of course, we're going to plug, you know, self care that, you know, getting, you know, social events in or making sure you're getting, you know, time to yourself and making sure you're getting in those activities that you really, you Enjoy as well because that also is a stress reliever just in and of itself, right? And that's helpful. So, and I definitely like to do yoga and in the summer I will sometimes do yoga on my back porch, which is frightening and also its own scariness. So that will, that's also something else I do to scare, scare the neighbors. But yeah, so we. We really, you know, thought it was kind of important to talk about this, because a lot of people experience this, this is something that's brought up. It's, you know, the weather and how we feel as humans and as mammals. So we thought this would be a good, Kind of trend or experience to just, you know, talk about as mental health providers and see how it affects our overall well being. But, yeah, we hope if you have any questions, if you want to add anything, any suggestions for us, we are always open for that. Right, Erin? We are always open for that. We are!

erin:

We want people to comment and ask us questions, give us ideas, we're there. We're welcome. We're welcome. We're not welcome. We're welcoming it.

Tanya:

Even if it's just an idea, you know, where you want me to wear a witch hat or, you know, certain, that's totally fine. Whatever. Throw it in there. We'll take it. And I will take it into consideration. I'm not joking.

erin:

I am voting more for the Laura Ingalls bonnet. I really like that.

Tanya:

I think that's interesting and creepy and weird and I love it. So I think I'm going to have to, I'm definitely going to go with that. I can't

erin:

really, I can't really say I'm less creepy than you because I was out this morning thinking if anyone could see me, because I'm always the, I'm always, Letting the chickens out like at, you know, like today I let them out a little bit later than I should have. It was like almost eight o'clock. It was like 7 30 or so in my full Christmas pajamas, big reindeer on my like, shirt and plaid and with Paige and Paige is going bark crazy at something and I'm just like oh my gosh trying to gather all these eggs because I forgot to get them the day before so I'm putting them in my pajama shirt. Like, looking like a lunatic. But So, yeah, so we all have our possible neighbors that can work for us. So, it's I am right now with you. Maybe a little crazier, so don't worry.

Tanya:

We're the creepy, crazy ladies of the neighborhood. Yes. Yeah, no, I'm happy with my choices, okay? I'm happy. So, and with my position. I take that status. I take it and I run with it. I love it. So. That's good. That's fine. That works for me. But yeah. So, so let us know always anything, DM in the comments, whatever it is. But yeah, so follow us on Instagram at Wicked Psychotherapists. On Facebook, we are The Wicked Psychotherapists. And subscribe and follow wherever you listen to podcasts. We're on all the things. We are on everything. So we really love to hear from you all and, and don't forget, stay wicked. And

erin:

keep your

Tanya:

mind well. That's right. That's right, guys. And stay creepy.

erin:

Bye bye.

Tanya:

Bye guys.

Thanks so much for listening today to the Wicked Psychotherapist podcast. Be sure to like and follow us on Apple, Spotify, and Amazon, or wherever else you listen to your podcasts.

People on this episode

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Erin

Host
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Tanya Santos

Host