I'm Listening: Delving Into the World of Dr. Frasier Crane from Cheers, Frasier and Beyond

Join us on a journey through the fascinating psyche of one of television's most beloved characters, Dr. Frasier Crane. 

In this episode, our two psychotherapists dive deep into the multifaceted persona of Dr. Crane, tracing his evolution from the iconic sitcom "Cheers" to the spin-off series "Frasier" and beyond.

Through lively discussion and insightful analysis, Erin and Tanya explore Frasier's relationships, career choices, and the intergenerational dynamics that shape his journey.

Discover the hidden complexities behind Frasier's pompous facade, unravel the threads of intergenerational trauma and support, and gain new insights into this iconic TV psychiatrist. 

Whether you're a die-hard fan of the show or simply curious about the psychology of fictional characters, this episode promises to entertain, enlighten, and leave you craving for more.

Tune in as we delve into the mind of Dr. Frasier Crane and uncover the secrets that lie beneath his erudite exterior. 

Don't miss out on this captivating exploration of one of television's most enduring characters!

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Transcript

0:08

You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

tanya: 0:31

Hey guys,

Erin: 0:31

this is Tanya. Hi, and this is Erin, and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

tanya: 0:36

We are going to be talking about Frasier, Dr. Frasier Crane, because he has had a longstanding character role in Cheers, Frasier, and now set to be with the latest show in 2023 the new Frasier, I guess we can call it or Frasier of 2023. And we thought there's a lot of tie ins, there is, you know his character evolution, it's a unique way to to, Analyze a character. He is a mental health professional. He's a psychiatrist. And I thought of another one. He is going back to Boston.

Erin: 1:09

That's New England. That's right. Yeah. We're tying it all together. So he started in New England. He, and he kind of went west and now he's back to New England. Yeah, his old

tanya: 1:20

stomping grounds. Let's get into it. So just in terms of the character himself and just the growth, the evolution, or things you find interesting what do you like or dislike about

Erin: 1:33

Frasier? Well I really like how Frasier's become, you know, like his, well, his character or his person. I feel as though there has been growth, or you know, it seems like he's able to recognize some of his faults, his inability to really have normal or healthy friendships or relationships because of his lack of awareness at times, and that could be from his high intelligence and his snootiness, but. It does seem as though there has been some shifts as the years have gone on.

tanya: 2:08

Yeah, absolutely. That's such a great way to put it because he has grown from the first time I remember seeing him in the 80s with his like curly hair and bald top head. And I just thought I did not like his character in Cheers, and I think he, it was designed that way, he's unlikable, and he actually was not supposed to be a recurring character they just liked that, his play off of Diane, and I guess, you know, Kelsey Grammer, the actor himself so he is a very, you know He's got these Ivy League this Ivy League education, excuse me and he very much walks into this, you know, grisly bar where everybody's drinking beer, everybody knows your name in the middle of Boston and he orders sherry, you know, so kind of you know rich man's drink and he starts to, to talk about things in a very, you know, high caliber way and it's kind of off putting for a lot of people, but he also. He also dispels a lot of wisdom, I think. And so that's how he starts to incorporate into the other characters and they start to really like him and accept him, even though they still tease him for his haughtiness. You know, and then in Frasier, when he moves to Seattle to be with his dad, we see that more of his background. And I never thought I would be interested in that, but it was great. I was like sucked in immediately. Right. That. You know, his dad isn't every man. He was a retired police officer. He's steak and potatoes. He's very much like, I like to drink beer, go to bars. I'm not into that fancy schmancy stuff, which I think he says a lot to Frazier. Right. Yeah. And their play of off of, you know, the foil of their characters how, you know, how much there's such opposites. But they find some common ground and I remember in the first season, probably in the first few episodes when Marty, the father comes to live with Frazier and they almost, it culminates to Marty almost saying, I'm going to move out because he's like, you clearly don't want me here. You know I'm cramping your style. I'm a burden and we don't have anything in common. We've tried. And then they start to realize, hey, you know what let's give this a shot, just as father and son, and it kind of takes off from there, they like appreciate, not appreciate, they still tease each other, but find some appreciation in this and make this work, you know, so I think that's a really great. Great way of, you know, kind of starting off the show and then we see some other characters, right? Which I don't know if you want us want to talk about his brother Erin for some particular

Erin: 4:24

reason. Yeah, well when I first, I remembered as, I don't even remember when Frasier first came out, but I feel as though he's in high school or middle school or some, you know, and I remember thinking Niles was really Like, I guess compared to the two of them, Niles is like the cooler one, in a sense. Or, I thought he was, and I thought he was really attractive when I was younger. And, but then looking back, re watching the show, I'm like, oh my gosh. Erin, what was wrong with you? So I looked at, was watching it, and, Ah, he's, his character is so nauseating. Niles is, Basically, his poor wife, I mean, I'm sure she was a pain, but he's dismissing her to try to smooze the father's physical therapist at the time and just basically cheat on his wife and he's just kind of I don't know, he's just very, he's, he seems snobbier than Frasier and he's just, his character, at least his character is just awful.

tanya: 5:24

Yeah it's funny because he actually, Niles character actually evolves quite a bit too because he starts out and he, he has this kind of contempt for Roz because Roz is very much, you know a free spirit in dating, I guess you could say, and they tease her, he teases her a lot about that, and kind of the way she is very much, It's just somebody who would like to go out to a bar and socialize and date men. and I think they actually become friends. They still tease each other, but they like each other. And I think in the Frazier circa nineties, early two thousands. see kind of this push towards, oh, you know, people can connect in different ways, right? You know, like there's all these differing backgrounds and it really is interesting and he has this cast of friends, like Roz, you know, she's kind of, Kind of gritty and very, you know takes no crap, you know, kind of, kind of lady. But she also is somebody who enjoys the company of men you know, and they tease her about that. That doesn't age well. Right. Right. Because now it looks like they put her down a lot for just her dating when they probably date five times more than her or Frasier knows anyways. Yeah. But. I find it really enjoyable to see that part. And they just, they had such a good chemistry, the whole cast and the characters. And it really brings out this side of, you see, Frasier as not someone who is just this hoity toity character who looks down on people, but you see that he actually cares not only as a psychiatrist, but he really cares about his friends. He cares about his family. Sometimes he just comes off the wrong way because it's a huge defense mechanism. And

Erin: 6:51

yeah, I was gonna say it might be a way of protecting himself too. And if you notice his family is so small. It's just him, his brother, and his dad. And then his friend circle is really small too. So it's probably really difficult to get in Frasier's inner circle. Right. And he's, he probably, it does really protect them and. It might come off, you know, for those that don't know him, it might be very off

tanya: 7:15

putting. Yeah, I think so. I mean, he's got this like fancy art that he displays. He needs it displayed a very particular way. Daphne the physical therapist slash live in maid, I guess. I don't like, you know, kind of person that, that cleans and stuff He wants her to like make it askew. This art needs to be askew for it to be seen just right. You know, he's very nitpicky and. persnickety and, you know just kind of a you know, just kind of a drag. Right. And, but then you also see that these are things that he's often relied on. You get to know that his mother was, you know, who was, who since passed, a psychiatrist Niles and he kind of always were fighting for, you know, her love because. That's just kind of what siblings do. And there was kind of a competitiveness with them, but there was also a lot of love between them as well. And there's a lot of dynamics. You start to see why Frasier has the personality that he has and he starts to recognize it too. But then sometimes he still doesn't. Right? And he still fumbles a lot of his romantic relationships. He gets a little cocky. He'll set up like four dates and then kind of be like, Oh wait, should I have not done that? Oh, whoops. I thought, you know, and then he gets down on himself and then. Marty comes in and is like, Hey, you know what? You're human kind of thing. Yeah, that tends to happen a lot. Yeah.

Erin: 8:33

And it's interesting too, because his relationship with his dad, he thinks his dad's kind of gruff or doesn't understand, you know, because he had a blue collar job, but his dad is often the voice of reason, which is probably difficult when your whole, who you are was probably defined by your mother.

tanya: 8:50

Right. Right. Yeah. Like there was more of a tie there. And Yeah I think it's really, it's so interesting to me that he's, his work life and he now does radio on the Fraser in the nineties and early two thousands. He's like a radio he's in entertainment technically, but he's still doling out kind of snippets of advice in this radio show. And he. He often does find himself wanting to, you know, kind of being brought back to that and saying, you know, but my purpose is to help people. He has all these other chances to get a TV show and actually what she does end up doing in Chicago and, you know, after this series ends, which we don't see as, you know, part of any of the shows. It's just known. But, you know he kind of always goes back to, like, what's the honorable thing? My core is to help people. Right. And that's

Erin: 9:42

kind of always his character. Yeah. And that's interesting, too, because you would think, like, it's for fame or money or to buy all the fancy things, but it is interesting. maybe he went into mental health. For a noble reason for to help people not for fame

tanya: 10:00

Yeah, it certainly seems like it and I think he does get swept up in it And I think I mean because he does after this show ends He does go to Chicago and he is a TV show There's always kind of a part of him. That is like he kind of likes the being in the spotlight Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of that but he I think he has very good intentions, you know He really doesn't want that comes through right? And then in the new, the 2023 show, which we watched cause we're fans of it. And we like these, you know, we like the character of Fraser, you see that he is now, and there's some spoilers here. So stop now, if you don't want these. But he then moves back to Boston, to his old stomping grounds, and he is trying to get to know his son, Freddy, who you know. Anya has a crush on. Yes, the actor is hot but and I'm okay with that because he's he's an adult. Right now. So he's no longer that, that young boy. get that straight. Okay. Like that he was but the actor, the adult, Oh, he's hot. Yeah. But he's a fireman. He kind of plays that other kind of foil to, to Frasier again. There's that interesting element of like, Ooh the battle of like the high end aesthetic versus like the everyman, you know, and kind of brings them back to that. they're still trying to find their way in, in that. But Frazier takes a job as a professor at Harvard, you know, that wasn't his original plan. He was going to go to Paris, but he gets talked into it. And, um, And it's kind of like he's now passing on his knowledge to the next generation, and that is very much, uh, I think kind of shows that he, he has this mean to, to feel like this is meaningful. I want to pass on meaningful work, you know, um, so, you know, I'm, I'm curious in, in terms of. Um, some of the, you know, with the, because we're not really getting so much into cheers because I think you and I were not super big into cheers. We just kind of know that's the introduction. Like I didn't watch it, but I mean,

Erin: 11:54

I watched it because I don't want to say because I had to, but I guess I had to, because if I wanted to watch TV, that's what I had to watch. Right. At that time, it was basically. Driven by whatever my parents were watching. So it was like Cheers and Taxi and M. A. S. H. and just really like, like, it was just like you're stuck watching. I mean, like, you just look forward to Clinger. Yeah, he was my favorite character, but it was like everyone else. I'm like, Oh, everyone's. I mean, I don't really care about anything else on M. A. S. H. But I did not. I

tanya: 12:31

was not a fan of that. But

Erin: 12:33

yeah, so on Cheers, I just. I don't know, I guess I was kind of annoyed more at Frasier, if I remember, because I was, like, at that age, it's like, okay, well, the Woody Harrelson character is, like, the only one who's somewhat, almost younger, you know, because, like, I was a kid, so I'm like, like, watching all these adults in a bar, like Whatever.

tanya: 12:52

But then, his character was so, like, he was such a dip, you know, he was so

Erin: 12:57

like. Yeah, but it's funny, I was just laughing thinking, like, like it was just socially acceptable for, to put your kids in front of like, alright, watch MASH, watch Taxi watch Heroes. Yeah, that was our generation. Yeah, it's, and then here's all in the family. You know, like it's just really appropriate. You know, like, to, to just,

tanya: 13:15

yeah. Interesting combination. Interesting things to expose your kids to. Yeah,

Erin: 13:20

it's like, really like, hey, here's here, it's okay to sit in a bar all day. It's okay. Yeah.

tanya: 13:25

You can make friends. And drink and just have your bodies there. Yeah. This is this is go seek this out. Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah, it looks fun. I mean, and it did, and I really did like that show, and I didn't think I was, like, Frasier of all of them when I realized it was a spinoff. I was like, what? Why would he get a spinoff? And then, I was really hooked, because you really do start, I wasn't immediately, it took me, like, probably a few years to get into it. Maybe even, you know it was kind of another thing that was maybe just on, and then I kind of really got into The characters that they bring in, they are a really good cast. They have really good chemistry. I think they all play off of each other very well.

Erin: 14:00

Yeah. And it's nice too. They're so different. Like when. Yeah. Yeah. When there was a spin off, I think everybody probably expected it to be Ted Dansing or something like that. Like it should have. But I think they, by really figuring out what's going on with Dr. Frasier Crane. So you figure out like, okay, this is, you know, this is this next step. We, we find out who he is more than just this person who's sitting at a barstool who you only learned about for a little bit while he's, you know, having a drink with his, you know,

tanya: 14:33

Diane. Right, and kind of how he, he was not a main character there, but here it's like his whole life story. He grew up in Seattle. You see his family, you know, his dynamics, you know, his like, You know, he kind of hangs out with his brother a lot. They tease him because that's kind of, you know, he kind of grew up, he was a nerdy kid who kind of always felt outcasted and he, in adulthood, it's still some of those social patterns still reflect, you know he's been able to you know, of course expand on that to a certain degree, but he's still, like you said, keeps his circle pretty close, you know, and likely he's kind of adapted this sense of haughtiness out of a protection of insecurity, you know, kind of a veil of insecurity. Right. And defensiveness because of probably being picked on because of his, you know he really was into academic work. He excelled at that and had kind of a haughty attitude probably even from a young age.

Erin: 15:21

Yeah. Well, yeah, he probably was very defensive. Like, so if everyone, if he knows people are going to pick on him, then why doesn't he come, you know, with, with the attitude or, you know, just sound a lot smarter and pompous So he can come at them before they go get to him make them right feel dumb So they don't make him feel like he's a loser or a

tanya: 15:43

nerd Exactly, and I think that there is You know with this new Frazier, you can see almost a sense of he's been, you know, he's always kind of drawn to the limelight, but he kind of pulls back in the fact that he does have a mission to help people, but there was a need to kind of satisfy that, you know, which probably stems from childhood insecurities. And I think he's in the new Frazier, he's met that he's had like a, like 15 year long career as like a successful TV host in Chicago when we meet him in the 2023 Frazier. So he's a little bit more, I think, settled. In that, and he really just wants a relationship with his son, Freddie, who's now grown and a fire, firefighter and he's just, he's real attractive. And and what do you think about the characters and the setting for the 2023 Frasier, the latest one? Okay. What's your take on that?

Erin: 16:34

Well, I like it, and it's interesting that you say that all he wants is to help people because I'm not really seeing that. I'm seeing more that when he's, when he moves back to Boston, I feel like he wants to, you know, it's like a stopping ground. First he wanted to reconnect with his son, then he sees his friend that he went to school with. And then the idea of becoming a professor at Harvard seems like very prestigious and that, it seems like that is the reason why he's wanting to do it at first, but it doesn't sound like he's like, Oh yeah, I'm going to help shape all these kids minds. But it seems like, Oh, look how awesome I am. They want to listen because I was on TV and I'm

tanya: 17:18

great. But yeah I think, I mean, there is kind of a struggle in one of the episodes in the latest. TV show where he's like, I don't want it to be like my talk show. I want it to be where I am a professor and of course he always has a very high opinion of himself. Right. You know? Right. That's always kind of, that's always just

Erin: 17:36

there. Self worth and self esteem is not an

tanya: 17:38

issue with Frasier. It's not a problem for Frasier Crane. Yeah. And he, I think he's kind of at a point, I think what I mean is he's kind of at a point of like that. Generativity where you look back at your life and you say, what can I, what have I given, you know and kind of in that, but there's still obviously some very Frasier self serving mechanisms in there. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin: 17:59

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So then to answer your question then of the characters. I really like his friend that he went to school with. I can't, I don't know his name. Like he's an older. He is funny. They went to school, but the, his. Friend looks so much older than him and but he's just he does But I really enjoy his I really enjoy his character and I like him a lot I but I the nephew Drives me bonkers. I don't know if they purposely try to make him just clumsy and Just not know how to interact and that's Niles's son. Yeah, that's Niles. Yeah, Niles and Daphne. And he's just very, I don't know, it just, at first, he's not very likable. Yeah, he's not very likable and it's not really believable how, because he's 19 years old, but they, I mean, Even if he was a little socially inept, it's just like they're, I feel like they're overdoing it a little bit. I really enjoy the, the boss, Frasier's boss. I think she's really funny. She's hilarious and but yeah, so and some of the firefighters are kind of fun. So the big tall dopey

tanya: 19:09

one I really like. I like him too with like the over exaggerated Boston accent. Yeah, I love that. I really, I like most of the characters and I agree with you. I think the nephew, Niles and Daphne's son I think they're still kind of developing how he fits in there. So I think it's a little awkward, but I do think he will fit in there. I think towards the last couple of episodes, I kind of thought, Oh, he's a little funny. I could kind of see him in there. I think he's kind of growing into it. I think he's also a newer actor. I of course looked up everybody's background, you know, the actors themselves because I'm just me.

Erin: 19:41

Oh, I do that, too. I'm such a, I'm, oh my gosh, something's wrong with me. Like, sometimes if I'm watching a new show, I always have to check who's the cast, how do I know them, what have they been in before. And then I get down a wormhole and it's so awful. I'm like, I must put down the phone. I don't really care. Right. What? Me too. And then I get into the thing of like, oh wait, who is Kelsey Grammer dated? What is, I'm like, oh my gosh, where did I get into this? I don't care. But

tanya: 20:10

Yeah. And it's really interesting if you look at Kelsey's like Kelsey as you know, the person, his life is very different from his character, but he plays that character so well. And I just find that really fascinating. That's something I really he's had a really a Interesting, a very difficult life with his family. But you know as I think he just plays this character so well, he just dove into it, it just, it fit him. He was able to really kind of understand that Frasier has a lot of complexities and he may be haughty, he may not see himself perfectly. He may fumble a lot, but deep down there is this core that really does care, that really does want to do the right thing. And it may take him the longer way to get there, but he gets there, you know, he kind of does see that reasoning, even with his relationship with his son, he has, you know, Freddie moving with him and the newest Frazier and to try and bond with him and say, okay, I really feel like this is a necessary part. I feel like I've, you know, he kind of, Freddie tells him like, Hey when my buddy died you know, which is the neighbors you know, The father of her child and he's like trying to help her out. Freddie is he says, you know, grandpa was there for me. Marty was there for me. And I guess Frazier was not, and wasn't too aware, was kind of busy with work. And it seems like there's a big disconnect there and it hits Frazier. And he says, Oh, you know, he realizes I want to be there for you. And I'm sorry, but I want to be there for you now. It may take a lot to kind of be in his face and to kind of go through that, but he gets it and he has a very good heart, you know, he really does. Want that I think that's what I really like about his character and

Erin: 21:41

it's interesting too because then that also shows The relationship that Fraser had with his father Because he values how his father may have really shown up for his son So it's like, you know, we always talk about intergenerational trauma. But here it is opposite. It's like, you know, showing like, you know, intergenerational, you know, you could show up you could be supportive. And so he saw that his, you know, he was there for his father. You know, he had to, it was kind of a happenstance, but then it became something that he really enjoyed and. liked being there for his father. Then his father showed up for his son, and now he is showing up for his son, because his father did.

tanya: 22:26

That's a great point, yeah. That really is, because we don't see that very often. Instead, it's usually the opposite, but yeah, seeing how, you know, it may not be in the way that Fraser sees as something like he would respond to, but it very much is something that is an absolute support in his life and a way that he can bond with his son now it's like, it's a gift almost. Yeah, it is. But you know, I know that we, you know, we, there's so many things we could talk about with Frasier. I know we're kind of limited on time today. But just to kind of. Round this out and maybe we'll kind of expand on this. We'll have another one. If people are into this, you know I want to ask a couple questions just to kind of end this out. But okay. Are you excited for another season of the 2023? Frazier? Are you looking forward to that? Do you think that'll be good? I am.

Erin: 23:13

The way that again, this we're all about spoilers here, You know, we didn't have to give spoilers for stuff that happened in the 80s and 90s because that

tanya: 23:22

happened. Hopefully you've seen it and you've read about it and heard about it.

Erin: 23:26

But, and also if you're watching today's episode and you see that it has Frazier's name in it, you're probably no Frazier or you're curious about him. But I am because the way that the season ended. It was, you really, I really felt for Frasier at the end of last season because it really showed, you know, like, I think he realized how his pompousness is not really appealing to people and it's not fun and then he, I think he felt very alone and you see at the very end Roz comes and I think that's what he needed. He needed to be connected with Somebody from his past besides his son and then just realizing like, oh wait, everybody's Celebrating across the hall and this is how you have a party. You don't have to you know wear a top hat or be pompous and just it's Yeah, I'm interested to see how his relationship with his son is gonna change and maybe If he will remember how he felt and maybe the character will change a little bit. I mean, I'm not really hopeful that he's gonna change too much, but maybe he will change a little bit. Maybe this will have helped him or maybe just even make him realize how valuable his friendships are and he doesn't have to show

tanya: 24:44

off for everybody. Yeah, he can kind of rest more in who he is. That insecurity, I think, has failed him. plagued him throughout his life. He's had to kind of put that up. And I think he's always kind of being shown over and over again. It doesn't have to be that way all throughout his character's evolution. And here it sounds like is a good opportunity. And I agree. I'm looking forward to that as well. I think that would be really great. I'm a fan of the new. Season. I'm not sure how it was received. I think there were kind of mixed reviews. Yeah. I really hope there is another.

Erin: 25:14

I hope we're not the only people watching

tanya: 25:16

it. I know, right? Yeah. I don't think so. I mean hopefully we'll be able to, but I mean, we're hopeful. Yeah. So one last question. Okay. Are there any, like, episodes or any moments that are kind of, like, favorites of yours from any of Fraser's appearances? Anything that just kind of stands out? I

Erin: 25:35

don't know. I started just thinking, like, when you mentioned, like, his whole time I started thinking of how back in Cheer, Cheers Land, how he and, I can't remember Ted Danson's character's name. Sam. Sam Malone. Sam. How he and Sam became friends. And that was just kind of like how he became friendly with all of those people. And it was just really interesting, like how he wouldn't just counsel them, like, you know, Cliff Clavin and all those people, but it actually seemed like he developed, started to develop like a friendship with them. And it was very strange

tanya: 26:09

at first. Yeah, he kind of, he was able to tap into something to say, Hey, like this is kind of part of my world and I can apply it towards yours. Right. I think that was a good connection point. Yeah. It kind of felt nice.

Erin: 26:22

Yeah, and then I don't know, I can't really think of just that one, one episode that I was like, cringe worthy, like when, like it was one of the first few episodes of the spinoff when, you know, in the eighties or nineties, whenever it was. And you just, he's just like so awful, like trying to get dates and get women and it's just like, ugh. Gosh. You know, his hairiness and grossness

tanya: 26:49

yeah, I could definitely see that. He really was not too appealing. I don't know if maybe other people share that. Yeah. Maybe opinion, but I do. Yeah. I'm sure they can relate. I, I

Erin: 26:58

definitely, but what about you? Does one stick out for

tanya: 27:00

you? Yeah, there is this episode in the Frasier, the 90s to early 2000s one where Niles and Frasier decide to have a dinner party and they are like going overboard per usual. They're like, Oh, we have to have the best caterer. We have to invite the most elite couples. And along the way they start to realize nobody really wants to attend this dinner party that they're throwing just to like show off like, Oh, we have the most elite of the elite. It just kind of really shows and demonstrates, you know their efforts for, you know, trying to kind of. Reach towards this particular image and how it just doesn't really fly. It just, it isn't really necessary. And I just thought that was a really great episode to demonstrate that. And there was, of course, funny moments in there and everything. So that

Erin: 27:49

reminds me too of the one where they both were like, so elitist and the dad just wanted to go to like a steakhouse or something like that, like, that's like really like buy one, get one steakhouse. And they're like, ugh, it's so, you know. So awful, and then they insulted him, so he left, and then they felt like, okay, well, we need to, for dad, we need to eat our entire meal, even though it's beneath them, and

tanya: 28:14

And they found it gross, and, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so, I know that this was kind of a little bit shorter we might expand on this in the future. Let us know if that's something that you want us to talk about or to continue to talk about. Hopefully season two of the latest episode spinoff, which we would love to do and we'd love to see happen. Yeah, and

Erin: 28:34

maybe we'll even, if anyone even knows like more about Frasier. I mean, it might be interesting too to see. Why did he go, you know, the Freudian route? Why did he, you know, like, because it is, you know, he talks about that sometimes, but I notice in the newest episode, he doesn't really talk about his, what theories he's really into. Yeah, he's

tanya: 28:54

a little, he's a little, I mean, he's been in entertainment kind of, I think for a while. So I think he's a little separate from that. He's like the Dr. Phil now. Right, right. But let us know what you think if you have any opinions, if you disagree, if you agree, if you have something else to add, we're always looking for your scope, your take on this. Also, if you have any suggestions for topics for other shows, we're very open to that. But thanks for listening. We hope you liked it. Yeah,

Erin: 29:21

and yeah, and don't forget, yeah, don't forget to follow us. Suggest us to friends. Reviews, all that stuff. We really

tanya: 29:28

appreciate it. Reviews help us out a lot. Five stars. Helps us get in the algorithm. Yeah, it does. Please do that. But and don't forget stay wicked

Erin: 29:39

and keep your mind well. And have a great day.

tanya: 29:42

Bye guys. Bye

29:51

Thanks so much for listening today to the Wicked Psychotherapist podcast. Be sure to like and follow us on Apple, Spotify, and Amazon, or wherever else you listen to your podcasts.