Wicked Psychotherapists

An Analysis of the Movie Moonstruck: Cher, Nicolas Cage and Family Dynamics

• Erin Gray, and Tanya Dos Santos • Season 2 • Episode 2

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Join Tanya and Erin in this captivating episode as they delve into the intricate world of the movie "Moonstruck." 

In this episode, they explore the mesmerizing performances of Cher and Nicolas Cage, unraveling the complexities of family dynamics portrayed in this cinematic gem.

Tune in for a dose of moonlit revelations and stay wicked with your favorite psychotherapists!

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You are listening to Wicked Psychotherapists, a podcast where two psychotherapists show you that taking care of and learning about mental health doesn't have to be wicked hard.

tanya:

Hi everyone, this is Tanya. This is

erin:

Erin Gray, and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapist.

tanya:

So anyways, on to today's topic We decided to go for something, some fun a fun movie, a classic or now a classic because it's about 30, 36 years old. 1987. We are going to talk about Moonstruck with Cher. Cher,

erin:

because we love to stay relevant with things.

tanya:

Yes. She is relevant. She's been relevant throughout like the generations. I don't

erin:

think she's, I don't think she's ever stopped being relevant, to be honest. Right. Exactly. Because she really pivots really well. And she's just amazing. With, when she's like 70 something and she probably

tanya:

still looks 20. I think she's 80. I think she's 80 something. She's like she's pretty, if not, she's close to it. She's in her late 70s, but her 80s, I don't know. She looks good. She, which we'll talk about, but I'm sure she looked older in the movie than she does now. She definitely did. Like, for sure. It was I think, yeah, we were talking about that, that she almost could pass for around the same age or even she looks older in 87 than she does in 2023. It's insane. Cher ages in reverse and she is phenomenal. We love her. We love her different phases, her, you know, crazy outfits that are fantastic for her and her shouting, booming voice. But, We especially love her in Moonstruck and how she had to have an Italian accent. And I thought she did a great job as an actress. I thought she was pretty good in, in her acting roles. Like, because she's been in other things. Yeah.

erin:

I can't remember if, was Mermaids before? Was it Mermaid?

tanya:

The one Mermaids was the, yeah, with Winona Ryder.

erin:

Was that before, or I think that might have been after. I think that was in like the mid 90s.

tanya:

It was definitely around that time, I think, as Moonstruck. Like it was a similar time. Cause it seemed like it was like

erin:

Cher, you have masks, you have this, you have, you know, so it was like She was a lot of good movies. Yeah, it was the era of Cher during that time, but

tanya:

It really was.

erin:

I really enjoyed re watching Yeah,

tanya:

I did too. It was like a little time warp. I just looked it up. It's 1990 was Mermaid. So it was about three years after. But yeah she, it really like, it transported me back to the eighties. There were a lot of elements there. It was also Italian, New York, the accents, the actors that were there. There were some classic actors that were, you know, they were in their sixties, probably back in 87 who were portraying these Italian, this Italian family that Cher, who played Loretta that she came from, and I just thought the dynamics were wonderful, that it had all the great kind of, you know, stereotypes of an Italian family in New York, and Cher did the over emphasis of like, you know, come on, Tony, you know, and very like, you know, over exaggerated but you I think we got to talk about Nicolas Cage and his accent, like,

erin:

I really Yes, I don't know how we, I don't know how we could talk about this without mentioning Nicolas Cage.

tanya:

Yeah, it's, it would be a crime not to. I mean, so, we all know Nicolas Cage is You know, he's got a very California accent, he's very surfer, yeah, you know, THV Ninja Turtles, like, Calabunga, you know, like, that's what I always picture him as. It was, I think it was hard for him to do this accent, and I think back in the 80s there wasn't, like, the amount of accent work that they do now, I think they try to be meticulous about it. Before it was kind of, go watch some, you know, stereotypical Italian movies and get an accent from there, kind of thing. And I think that's exactly what he did. Well, yeah, well I just, the whole thing, like when

erin:

she first meets him, and he's by the oven with his Tank top, with his tank top on, and his fake hands. Like, it's just

tanya:

Just for clarification, we are not laughing at the fake hand, we're just laughing at the ridiculousness that is Nicolas Cage. He's just like, he's kind of, you know, he's just himself. He just is. It was

erin:

just so over exaggerated. I know he didn't have anything to do with the props. But it was just like everything was just so much and just like just with it even that first scene where he's introduced it's like oh gosh here he is

tanya:

acting. Here he is, taking on another role. Yeah, he, I mean, and I know we're saying this in a very endearing way. I think we both love Nicolas Cage because of these qualities. I was telling Tanya

erin:

earlier that I think because of this movie, it has made me never miss a movie that Nicolas Cage has done. Has been in. I think I've seen every Nicolas Cage except maybe one or two of the newer ones I haven't seen yet, but I have, I really love his I really do love him, and I, something about his bad acting, like how Keanu Reeves too, you know, like, Yes,

tanya:

I was just thinking that, oh my gosh, yeah, that it's like, it's so endearing, you're just, you're willing to pay money to watch them act that way, Yeah, because you love them so much, there's something about them, Yeah, it might not be the best, you know,

erin:

but, There's just something about it and his acting was definitely not his finest, but it was. He was all in. He was

tanya:

all in. Certainly was. You could tell he practiced that at home. You could tell he practiced that speech about his hand like and how it came to be. You just knew it. You could see him practicing anger,

erin:

his anger at Lono when she came in and mad about his brother Johnny. Like, so there is, like, a lot of passion there.

tanya:

Yeah, he's a real passionate individual. I, so, just kind of in some of the elements, I actually was thinking about that story where Loretta, the Cher's character, Loretta she talks to him and she says, You're a wolf. And you did this to yourself with the, how he you know, speaking about how he came to have his hand cut off. Yeah, sliced his hand off, yeah. And like the bread slicer or something and she's like, you had to chew yourself out of freedom because you know, that's why you lost that girl because you actually really didn't want that and I thought that was kind of interesting. You know, I was like, that's really kind of, you know, a little bit well, it's certainly mental health, but like psychological, you know, kind of thing that he, she was picking up on something like. You know, immediately that was in, in her, you know, first meeting him or maybe like her second time meeting him that she was picking up on a characteristic of, hey, you actually made this fate for yourself because you extracted yourself from a fate, a situation that you weren't meant to be in and you saw that.

erin:

Yeah I heard that, but I don't think I heard it quite the same way. And I think you explained it that way is spot on. It's. It does make sense, like she was saying, you know, like you, you know, this happened because maybe you didn't want it, you didn't subconsciously, you didn't want to be in this relationship. You know, not to go to the extreme of having your hand sliced off by a bread

tanya:

slicer. Go ahead. Yeah. But kind of that symbolism of like how a wolf, if they're caught in a trap, they would gnaw their own paw off, you know, and then I thought that was really interesting to them, that connection with like the wolf and the moon, you know, moonstruck kind of thing. And I really I appreciated that and I thought, wow, that's really interesting that she's able to see that about him, but she doesn't. necessarily see that she herself has kind of gone against what she truly wants in this relationship with Johnny, the brother and has kind of said, okay, I'm going to go against what my true nature is, and I'm just going to marry for practicality. Yeah. And you know,

erin:

what I was wondering too about, like, while you're saying that, I know she, she didn't really love Johnny, but did Johnny love her? Like, was Johnny just trapped in it too, or was he? Did he love her? Was that, was it just a relationship of convenience for both of them? Like, was it something that was expected by their family? Or was it something, because they both were, you know, he was probably much older. He looked like he was like 70. No

tanya:

I think he was like, he was supposed to be 40, like 42, I think they said, and she was like 37. So they actually weren't. Too far apart, but it's just, Cher is timeless, so, you know, it's, she always looks young.

erin:

Yeah. He really did look like

tanya:

he was 50. He did. Yeah. Especially with the, that's part of the eighties. You know, everybody looked like 50 times older than they were except for Cher. Yeah. But you know, I, that's a good question, and actually now when you think about, you know, at the ending and, you know, these are all spoiler alerts, but hopefully you all have seen, this movie is almost four decades old, so, I mean, and you wouldn't be watching this without this, so we're just it's, Dissecting it. Yeah, but it's, you know, he did say at the end, well, you know, since the curse is, I was marrying you because I thought there was a curse. I thought it would help my mom, you know, I thought it would help the curse with, you know, my mom dying or whatever that was kind of thing. Like he was kind of doing it for his own practical purposes as well. And then called it off when his mom miraculously got better. Yeah. And so, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe that wasn't really and, you know, I know he was portrayed as such an adult, like, so overbearingly as, like, such an adult, but he, when he went to propose in the restaurant, he wasn't prepared, you know, and I know he's has to be told what to do, she's like, you gotta have a ring, get down on your knee, you know, you can't just ask me, you know, these things, and And people were commenting, they were like, yeah, you gotta get the ring, you gotta get the ring, buddy, you know, blah, blah, blah, the whole restaurant, but he was very much unaware and unprepared, so maybe it was kind of a spontaneous thought or something that he had thought about, but wasn't really fully into, so yeah, I think you're, I think he probably wasn't as into it.

erin:

Yeah, because it seemed like a couple times even in the proposal, because it seemed like that one waiter knew because he had told somebody else like, hey, blah, blah, blah, when the dessert comes. You know, this is, he's gonna, he's gonna ask her to marry him. And then, it seemed like he wasn't fully in it. He's just like, you gotta get on one knee. Where's the ring? You gotta, you know, it's So I was just wondering if he ever really loved her because you never hear them say I love you or Anything like yeah

tanya:

throughout it and they don't kiss goodbye like when he goes to Palermo or Sicily, you know She drops him off at the airport and there's no kissing. There's no hugging. There's no it's just kind of here's some She takes care of him almost the way A mother would, you know, it's very like, here's your gum for your ears to pop, you know, when your ears pop and he's like, oh yeah, that happens and she's like in some cough drops and he's like, you always look out for me, you always care for me, which could be very, you know, you know, kind of like a wife, you know, like, like traditional kind of role of that, you know, just kind of being a nice partner, but it also was kind of yeah. motherly, because he seemed so incapable of taking care of himself, so it was almost kind of like she had to be like, get some gum so your ears don't pop, you know, kind of that type of thing. That's kind of how it came off, at least to me, I don't know. But I do think there was A lot of, you know, maybe he just didn't, he didn't seem to really know what he wanted. He was kind of just a as we'd say in Polish, a dupa, dumbass. But, sorry, I don't know if I should have said that, but He, you know, he really, like, leaving his luggage, you know, when he came back from the airport, that, that was so painful. Just to see him, like, do it, like, three times, it's like, okay, we get it, he's adult he's And also,

erin:

Tanya and I had talked before, it's like, it almost seems like that was something that they should have, there's a few things that they should have probably edited out, but. It was like, alright, one time, okay, he left it with the taxi person. Taxi person let, started driving off. Okay. Oh, the second time, he forgot again. Ha. The third time, you know, Loretta's

tanya:

mom, he's leaving it in the front foyer.

erin:

You know, just that's, it stopped being funny, like, after the first time, at least to me. I felt like it was very trying to be slapstick

tanya:

or something. It was too painfully drawn out and it was kind of like that 80s sequence of we'll get a laugh from anywhere and like you, you pointed this out that the rest of the movie was not in that style of humor, so it just didn't really fit at that point and that was towards the end, the scene that we're talking about, so it just didn't, it didn't really work for me, but that's, you know, them's the 80s, right? You know, that's the thing with it and you Yeah, so that's a good point. So they maybe didn't even have that feeling, that spark, but it seems like as soon as she met Nicholas Cage, Ronnie, his character, Ronnie, as soon as she met him, she wasn't really feeling it, but he was kind of feeling something with her and then drew her into this feeling of allowing herself to be like, okay I actually can feel this, you know, I can let myself feel this because Loretta, she had married before for love, she had gone against her family's, you know, ethos their rules, their, you know, kind of understanding and really had You know, said, okay, I can marry later. I can marry for love rather than practicality and arrangement the way the rest of her family had done. And she waited to have a child and then her husband was killed two years into the marriage. So she never got a child. And so she, she did things her own way. And so I think this time around she was really suppressing her natural feelings on how things should be. And was like, okay, no, I have to take. The, you know, that's my bad luck, so I have to, you know, take this natural, pragmatic course of like, you know, loving someone who probably has good money, who would be a good provider, you know, and I, but I don't have feelings for him. Because in the first, you know, I think one of the beginning scenes when she tells her dad and then she goes in and tells her mom about the marriage, she says, do you love him? And she's like, no immediately. She doesn't even like think about it. Yeah, I thought that

erin:

was interesting because she's not even like, of course I do mom,

tanya:

you know, she's like, yeah no, not very upfront. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. But with Ronnie, you know, and, you know, it's likened and symbolic to the moon, drawing them together, or whatever cosmos moon as the. Silly uncle says that it's the moon that draws them together and brings the woman to the man and you know, so they kind of set Ronnie and Loretta up that way, but I thought that was really interesting. The use of superstition in the movie is fantastic. I loved it. I loved that there was like, in the beginning Cher said, the old lady was like, I put a curse on my sisters on that plane, you know, because she took this man just out of spite. And Cher was like, I don't believe in curses. You know, she's very much like, I'm not listening to all that stuff from like my family and the, you know, that type of stuff. But then she keeps saying, I have bad luck, you know.

erin:

Which is very interesting, too, because especially, you know, certain cultures, certain families, it's, you know, traditions like that, the curses, and it's very ingrained in it. And it's funny, too, in that scene, the old woman's like, eh, I don't

tanya:

either. You know, like, just, I'm different. Yeah, oh yeah, that one's pretty funny. Yeah, so at the beginning and at the end, they tried to have some humor.

erin:

Yeah, in between, yeah, it is, it's, yeah, it's like, It is interesting though, like Cher or Loretta, she does probably have a lot of internal battles, like, because like, even with her own cultures and, you know, do I believe in superstitions or do I not? Do I believe, you know, do I want to do the ways of my family or do I want to be more modern, less traditional, you know? Yeah. Because it even with I was curious about, you know, her husband Was killed I'm sorry, like he, he didn't just get, he didn't just die, he had

tanya:

to get hit by a bus. I know, that was really, I was like, oh wow that's a way he's

erin:

really, they really want to make sure he's dead, and but I thought it was interesting though that it seemed, I don't know if it was because he died that she was very, kind of frumpy, and litter, you know, didn't, She was only, like, in her thirties. Like, so she's let her hair go gray. She's not, you know, it just seems like she's,

tanya:

it's not She doesn't come full share until she gets that makeover. Yeah, it's not like the you know, like the

erin:

stereotypical, let's have the makeover type of thing, but she But yeah, it seems like I was wondering if maybe she decided not to dye her hair because She had lost her husband, or if that was just accepted, because it seemed like her father was upset

tanya:

yeah, I think maybe there was a feeling that, you know, the father said when she announced that she would, she was going to get married, he was like, you have bad luck with this. Never in my marriage has someone ended up Dead in 52 years like in yours first one someone's dead. So you have bad luck with this like this So it was kind of her like in her mind I think to and through her father probably the impression that she would just kind of be like a spinster and just kind of stay With I hate that word the spinster but like stay with you know her family and just kind of take care of them and I think he just probably thought that's the way it's gonna go and You know, she kept saying, I'm 37, you know, blah, blah, blah. But like, you know, maybe back then that seemed kind of, kind of older and within their scope of the cultural lens, all that stuff. But yeah, it, it maybe was one of the reasons why she felt like, okay, I, you know, I lost my husband. I think she was only, it was like seven years before that. So she would have been like 30. But I think she probably wasn't really looking for that because she seemed kind of shocked Johnny proposed to her at the restaurant. I think she was just like, Oh, this is just some guy I'm seeing. I don't know. He's all right. And like, he didn't seem to know anything about her, really. Like they I mean, like somewhat. But I think she mentioned like, Oh, I was married before. And he was like, You were married before? Like they hadn't even had that conversation. And here he is asking about. Asking her to marry him, which I thought was strange. I was like, Oh, they don't really even know each other. Yeah,

erin:

because it wasn't the familiarity, like, with Johnny already having oatmeal in the morning with the family. Yeah, he kind of invited himself over, but it did feel more comfortable where it seemed like the father and the mother, no one really liked the relationship. You know, the brother

tanya:

Johnny, they all like Ronnie. Yeah, which is another thing, Johnny and Ronnie, like, they had to make those names rhyme. I was like, that is so 80s and goofy and weird and just, yeah, that's about 80s. Yeah, and so I, what I really thought was interesting was while the father is pushing this dynamic, he himself is having an affair on the mother with Mona. And in her hot pink dress at the opera, but you know that he's been having this, it seemingly seems like kind of a long term type of affair or, you know, he's been kind of flirting with her for a while, but we don't really know how long it is and he's saying all that to his daughter and when he runs into Loretta, his daughter and Ronnie you know, kind of says something like, let's pretend like we just didn't see it, you know, let's not talk about this, but then is, kind of ashamed of her and doesn't really think much of himself doing it. You know, so there's kind of that like hypocrisy of like, I can do this, but you can't kind of thing. And maybe some of that traditional kind of, well, men menstruate, you know, kind of, kind of thing, but like, You know, maybe he has that thought, like, thinking pattern of men are kind of allowed to do this, but, you know, if you're a woman, I think he called her some Italian name that, that means, like, he said putana, which is I mean, if you speak Italian, you know what I said. So, trying to keep this, you know, I already slipped up once, but basically, you know, that she's maybe not the most person, I guess. Yeah in his eyes. And, but he, you know, he, it's kind of that, That, I don't know, that brought me back to that thinking of, you know, which can be in, in some traditional styles of families, cultural or in American culture not too long ago, right? And still in, you know, some people might think that way that, you know, it's like a man is kind of someone who, who can stray. Whereas if a woman does it, she's not a good person. She's this or she's that. And the

erin:

family dynamics within that household. were probably pretty intense and it seemed like everyone had their roles. So the mother had a certain role, the grandfather's role was probably to be quiet. I don't know if it was his house originally, you know, it's really hard to tell. So like he had his little role, the, you know, Loretta's role was, you know, be the good daughter, go to work, you know, come home, you know, just Yeah, mom around the house. It's and he's like, okay, well, I'm the plumber and I'm allowed to make money and I don't have

tanya:

to tell you when I am right, right. Yeah, exactly. And I do agree. The grandfather was an interesting character because at the end he does say, you know, I'm old. You don't really get to get a hint that he really speaks English up until that point. But he says in English. You know, like, I'm old, so I don't really have, I'm invisible, kind of thing. I don't have, like, a place, so that kind of shows that's what he felt like and the daughter in law Loretta's mom, Olympia Dukakis who I love, is, was playing that character, was a little kind of controlling of him, it seemed like, you know, kind of, like, you just kind of stay there, you know, kind of thing in your role, and, so yeah, absolutely, I think there were So many roles that that they were trying to fulfill. It's interesting,

erin:

though, like if he said, I'm old, I'm invisible, or, you know, I have to be quiet or whatever, that he chose to have five dogs, and that, so when he's walking them, he's not really that invisible, and they're around the house, so it's almost,

tanya:

Yeah. His little pack

erin:

that, you know, but so it's hard not to be noticed if you see someone

tanya:

walking that many dogs. That's so funny. I didn't even think of that. Yeah, that's such a, like, symbolically, they were all trying to, in their own ways, kind of fight those roles, those traditional roles that have been assigned to them. And that's how, probably how he did. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. And with, you know, the dad, it was maybe and you know, his. I don't know, maybe he just felt like he needed an escape or with his affair, but Yeah, and the woman he chose

erin:

was completely opposite of his wife. You know, in every way, like bright red hair, probably not Italian, very pink. Pink dress where his wife is more

tanya:

traditional and yeah, just not she didn't seem too bright either Yeah Seemed to be really like she was so fascinated by him saying he charged people for copper cops It was copper pipes and was like, oh you know everything she was so fascinated by him I don't know if that was just an act but Well, obviously it was, but you know what I mean, I don't know if it was like, you know, just her kind of putting that, putting them on to be like, oh, but she seemed kind of, kind of ditzy, whereas the mom character seemed very polished and you know, very much like, private person. You

erin:

know what I thought was interesting about the mom how it was almost like she was on this mission to find out why men, how men think and why they do things by asking like the John Mahoney character and, you know, then asking everybody, you know, like why, you know,

tanya:

why do they do this? That is interesting. Yeah, she asked John Mahoney, and then she asked Johnny, right? And Johnny said something about the rib, Adam and Eve, and the biblical kind of stance, and that is really interesting. I think she was kind of conducting her own, like, survey of, like, what is the answer to this? I just don't get this. Why do men do this? Why is this accepted as a pattern of, you know, like, what's the reasoning behind this? Because it makes no sense. Yeah, I found Johnny's answer very interesting. Yeah, it was very Oh, like, they're missing something. We're just a part, a little piece of them, internally and, I know that, biblically, that can be interpreted that way. Right.

erin:

But, yeah, how he said it is just very much, like, I don't know, it felt like ownership to me. I don't know, it's just very, I don't know, I just

tanya:

don't understand. Well, he's someone I think that's accepted a lot of ideas presented to him. We he's adult, you know, he's dope. And so he probably just was, you know, and I am not at all saying if anybody believes that they are. Yeah, you're not

erin:

Just his character and how he said it

tanya:

I think he's very like, you know, whatever's presented to him is what, is real kind of thing. So he just kind of accepted that and didn't really question that. And that was his only answer. He didn't really, he never really like actually critically thought about it. But yeah I definitely, I found this so interesting with the family dynamics and the use of the moon as a symbol of this is people's, you know, the moon struck the night when the big moon and the bright luminescence, everybody could kind of show their true nature. And that was kind of something that made them happy. Yeah, it is a different

erin:

spin because a lot of times like movies in the past, the moon, like there's Dracula, this and that, you know, like where it's a different feeling. And this is like, OK, well, we're going to do the symbolic nature of the moon, which there is a lot of you mentioned superstitions and stuff. And some people feel like, you know, like you put your crystals on the seat that. windowsill to recharge them, you know, people feel different ways or have different energies or, you know, there's always the jokes. If you work in the hospital and you're working, you know, you're going to have a

tanya:

lot more.

erin:

Oh, yeah. Patients or action if you're mental health too. Yeah, definitely. It's, you know, and So it is interesting that they made the movie around how people feel based on the movie. Like, is it, you know, I just thought it

tanya:

was kind of neat. Yeah, that is really it's because it is in and of itself a superstition, but it turns out to be something very revealing for each character and for the roles that they're kind of assigned. And I think that's what's really cool about it is it was a nice. Way of demonstrating that it took us back to the eighties. The accents were glorious you know, and then seeing those kind of actors that are, you know, were in their sixties or I remember they were, you know, on the golden girls as like extras and things like that. And I would see them and I was like, Oh my gosh, that's, they, this is where they come from. You know, they're like, you know, these actors back in this era, but then. You know, later on they probably appeared on the Golden Girls as like one of the girls love interests or whatever. And you know, but all these kind of like, you know, really authentic, I think, actors like those actors that come from like a different era, you know, that really kind of hone their craft really are you know, really engross themselves in their role kind of thing. Very, you know, it's. And a lot of people who,

erin:

Like you look and like they went on to play like Wolves and Godfather and different things. So they really Embraced being portrayed as like Italian American actors, a

tanya:

lot of them. Yeah, although some of them I think were, yeah, like Greek, like Olivia Dukakis, yeah, and Jewish, you know, like kind of, kind of some of the similarities there and it was just, it was really nice because some of them, it may have been their actual accents, you know, like the, their like authentic or what they heard from their parents, you know, kind of thing. So I really love that and I love seeing the shoots of, or the shoots, the shots of authentic New York and seeing like the old delis and, you know, even the last names. I think Loretta's last name was like Castriani and she was marrying somebody who was like comp Comparary or something and it was like pretty similar and I don't know, I just, I love that and, you know, some of the cheesiness that we, you know, you could get away with movies in the eighties and just seeing those elements in there. I think it was great all around. Yeah, one of my favorites and shares in it. So it's always fun.

erin:

And it does, it makes you think about, really does make you think about family dynamics, family relationships, how they, you know, cause it's not just their, the husband and wife, it's how their relationships affects their daughter, how the, you know, then the aunt and uncle are involved. It's very enmeshed. And, but. You know, it can be unhealthy, but then it also turns out to be very healthy because they are very supportive at the very end, too. You realize how much they all do love each other and

tanya:

care about each other. Yeah, for sure. That last scene where they're all at the table and things just come out, you know, people are kind of revealing what they think, who they are, what they've been doing, you know, with the affair, with the dad, with Loretta. And the mom just saying, like, I want you to stop, you know, just kind of confronting it. The father, the old man with the dogs, him just saying, I have to come clean, you should pay for the wedding. And, you know, Olympia Dukakis is kind of holding her breath, like, oh my God, is he going to, you know, but he's just like, I'm, that's the type of person that he is. He has dignity and he's just going to speak on the fact that you should pay for your daughter's wedding. You're like, that's who he is. Yeah. It's

erin:

interesting too, earlier. When he went to the funeral of a friend like with all his dogs, and he was telling his friends like, you know I really want my son to pay for this wedding. Yeah, I think he should so yeah So it does show that the grandfather had deep feelings Deep conversations are really felt

tanya:

deeply. Yeah, like he wasn't, I mean, he may have felt invisible, but he certainly was participating emotionally very much in the element of the overall family and was there and he spoke on it and then even the aunt and uncle came coming in and being like we Do you have something to say, like, kind of confronting the, you know, Loretta forgets to make a bank deposit for them, and, you know, kind of them saying that, they're like we didn't think anything, but of course, you know, they did, why else would they

erin:

come to the, like, you wouldn't come to the house all like, you know, we're coming together, and accusatory, unless she thinks someone stole your money. I thought she stole it too, at first. Because all of a sudden she's dying her hair, and she's getting all these clothes

tanya:

and stuff, where'd she get that from? Yeah, she got all these new, yeah, the new outfits, and like, the red heels or whatever, and the red nail polish, and yeah, she got everything done. Yeah, she got All the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That actually would have been an interesting tie in, but I don't know where that would have went. But I think it was just like everybody was coming clean, you know, the moon kind of showing that, you know, how they look different. They're kind of making comments like, you look like an angel in the light or this, you know, you look, I think the uncle's wife, the aunt said something like, you look 25 years old in the light

erin:

of the moon. And then, yeah, then he was really happy and

tanya:

It was good. It was very interesting. Yeah, it was a great way to show how I think families can, you know, at certain points, they can learn to accept other things about their family members if they can learn to accept it about themselves and you know, there's these built in superstitions that kind of help it along the way, which fits in so nicely with Those New York Italian accents that I just enjoy. I loved it. And

erin:

it, yeah, it would be nice like if families were able to have conversations. Cause those weren't really tough conversations. Those are just like, you know, yes, the mom telling the husband like stop having an affair. But the rest were like, you

tanya:

know

erin:

what? Let's just be honest.

tanya:

Let's just talk to each other. Yeah. Yeah. It was almost kind of, to me it felt very therapeutic. That last scene, I was like, wow, everybody's just coming clean and they don't have to hide this. They don't have to worry about this. And you know, Loretta can pursue actual love as opposed to just marrying this dolt who she doesn't like. And I just can't think of a different word for him, dolt. Like, I don't know, that's just dope. Yeah,

erin:

just kind of. Yeah, he, well, he just, well, he felt very, I don't know like kind of Milk Toast kind of, just eh, like he's there. Yeah. You kind of get annoyed each time he's in a scene. At least I did. You know, it's just like,

tanya:

oh, there he is. Yeah, he's just, you know, he's going to do something really ridiculous and, you know, when the father says something like, oh, watch your back or something, you know, he kind of warns him because he knows that his daughter is seeing someone else. And he's like, make sure you can see everything. And he's like, I'm seeing right now. He just takes things so literally and it's just like it's painful, you know, again, you're like, oh man, come on. Okay, we get it. This guy is not smart. Yes, we know. But yeah, so I think that this is a classic. If you haven't seen it in a while, like, like me, I think the last time I saw it, I was seven, eight, nine, I don't know. And it was probably It was on TV, and it was probably the first time it was on TV or something like that. I don't know, but it was playing, and I did not remember. I took completely different meanings. I didn't, I don't think I took any meaning from it. It was just that's a New York movie, and Nicolas Cage is a werewolf. I don't know. Yeah,

erin:

I don't, I mean, I remember seeing it because my mom was, you know, my mom was, like, from New York, and, you know, half Italian, and so, like, I remember very much. It felt like I was like, okay, this could have been people that you know was in her family or whatever But I remember sitting on the couch watching it with my mom and family for the first time I mean, I don't remember. I don't remember a lot of I remember the essence of it I remember that there was a moon I remember there's like something happened with Cher. I actually thought that there was singing in it, but there wasn't You know, like, I don't know, like, I was like, okay, is she gonna, is there going to be a song singing? Not that it was a musical, I just expected different things, but it was good. I was really happy to see Nicholas Cage's

tanya:

acting. And, but, you know, it was fun. And to hear him. Yeah.

erin:

But it was really, it was a fun movie. I'm glad we chose this. And it does have a nice display different family dynamics, relationships, what not to have in a relationship, how to have, you know, how to have a relationship, some,

tanya:

what people think male female goals are, which they don't have to be, you know, and it's, I thought it was, I thought it was very good. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, being true to understanding yourself as well as other people. I think that was really reflected all throughout. And just that Cher is, Cher and Olympia, they are just amazing. And Nicolas Cage is always entertaining just because he's him. Yeah, I heard

erin:

he does like method acting too. So he probably really got into, you know, I don't know if that

tanya:

was. I can totally picture that with him. I can picture him shadowing some Italian family and they're like, Who are you? And he's like, I'm Nicolas Cage. I'm going to be, I'm going to be following you because I need to do this. I'm going to be in a really important movie. And they're like, Get away from me. We don't all wear, we don't all wear

erin:

The what's it called? White tank top. Yeah, white tank tops. They're going to ruin the whole thing. But yeah, we don't all wear that. We're not all stereotypical. Come

tanya:

on. Yeah. And the like the, that scene when he's in the basement when Cher or Loretta first meets him I think when I was younger, this is so, or maybe I'm mixing up another movie that he was in. I thought the reference to the moon and then the way he looked, I thought maybe he turned into a werewolf. That's what I associated this movie with. And I was like, I don't know where this fits in. Maybe he was a werewolf in another movie. I feel like he

erin:

was a werewolf. I mean, not in

tanya:

this movie. Yeah, like, it's just a reference of him being a wolf, like, symbolically. I don't know, I feel like

erin:

he has been a werewolf before. I mean, he's been a ghost rider.

tanya:

I mean, I'm sure he's been a werewolf. I'm sure he's been a wolf before, you know, like a werewolf or whatever. I think I mixed up this movie with another one where he was, and I just thought like, Oh, the moon, so maybe this is the one. Like, that's literally what I remembered. But I was like, I remember really liking it for some reason. And so I really, I'm so glad that I revisited it because I got that straightened out in my brain, and I don't like picturing Nicolas Cage as a werewolf, honestly, but Yeah, now I feel like I need to find out if he ever was one. I think he was. I think I maybe mixed up this movie with another one, but I just remember really liking it, so I'm so glad when we You know, we're like, that's a good one. Yeah, because

erin:

we both chose this originally, because we're, I don't know, we're feeling nostalgic. And we were like, you know, what is some things that make us Think of, you know, we're like Cher. Cher makes us think of our childhood and

tanya:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, 80s. She embodies the 80s, 90s, 2000s. She's the world. I mean,

erin:

she was at the Macy's Day Thanksgiving thing, you know, so she's so

tanya:

current. Yeah, I'm so sad I didn't see that. I'm gonna have to go back and watch

erin:

it. I miss that part. I was watching and I, but I saw that she had a blonde wig on.

tanya:

Oh, she's always just full of surprises. Love her. Yeah, her and Dolly love their wigs. Oh, yes, Dolly. Oh my gosh. Those are those like dream combo. Yeah. They're just great. Yes. Oh my gosh. So, well, we love this movie. We love Cher. We had so much fun discussing this. We appreciate you all coming in. Let us know what you think about this episode. You know, make sure to let us know if you have any ideas coming up. Yeah,

erin:

we have a couple ideas for, like, we do have The next, I don't know, should we give them spoilers to what our next couple might

tanya:

be, or? Sure, if you have that, because I don't have that handy. I do

erin:

have it, because we're going to be talking about seasonal affective disorder, like what that looks like, and you know, kind of like how it shows up in different seasons, and

tanya:

we're going to have to talk about that, then Valentine's will be coming up and stuff, and I don't know. We just

erin:

have some others and Tanya and I were talking about some of our shows that we like that we might talk about too.

tanya:

Yeah. We have an exciting one. Well, we're excited for it coming up. Hopefully you all are too. And that's what

erin:

matters because if we're not excited,

tanya:

You won't be excited.

erin:

Right, exactly. So like Cher, we love Cher.

tanya:

Cher got us going. I was so excited to watch this and talk about it. And honestly, Nicolas Cage. Just how Nicolas Cage y he is.

erin:

Yeah, I wonder, I do wonder. This must have been his first

tanya:

movie. It was probably one of the first, yeah. Because he was Pretty young, I think he started kind of late. Do you know he's a Coppola? Francis Ford Coppola, you know the director that Coppola's in Hollywood? He's Francis Ford Coppola's son. What? Yeah, he is, he changed his name to Cage because he wanted to, or he went by Cage because he wanted to like make it on his own. Like that's what he's known for is like, That he did not want his family name getting him in and so he got all these quirky projects and everything like that. Oh my gosh, I had no idea. Yeah, he like made it. I mean, I'm sure he probably had some connections. Yeah, I'm sure dad probably helped him. I'm

erin:

sure, you know, I'm

tanya:

sure, but it's, that's interesting. Yeah, I had no idea. But he really didn't want that. Like he wanted to do it on his own and he definitely has made a name for himself. I mean, for sure, you know, whether it's just because of his Particular unique style, but yeah he's he's the son of, I was reading up about that. I remember knowing that he came from a very wealthy family and he kind of wanted to not. Yeah, I just checked Wikipedia. Yeah, that's. Interesting. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. That's really I thought that was such a cool thing, like, like, to just know. And I know that's probably what a lot of people do know, like, they know he kinda, you know, he tried to not get the Nepo baby kind of thing going, you know, he was trying not to get those, like, he really wanted to do this on his own. I gotta say, I, I applaud that. I think that's pretty cool that he really was like, Hey, I'm gonna, cause he easily could have been like, I'm just going to use these connections and, you know, and I'm sure he still had some, but I really think he, Yeah. Thanks. So, I don't know, he just kind of, he, he tried to build his name on his own. So the viewers who are curious,

erin:

this was Nicholas's third movie, Valley Girl was in 1983, Peggy Sue got married in 1986, and Moonstruck was 1987, and then Raising Arizona, which was the one that I think got him, or was it Raising Arizona or Leaving Las Vegas? Raised in Arizona was 1987, so I think that was

tanya:

one of the first ones. I liked that movie. Me too. That was a good one. And Peggy Sue Got Married? That's the other one. I liked that one too. Yeah. I don't think I saw the first

erin:

one. The Valley. I haven't seen Valley Girl. So I guess I lied when I said I saw

tanya:

all those movies. Well that can be your homework now. Yeah. You'll complete it by. There are like a million. Yeah he's like made a name for himself in like these quirky roles with this quirky style of, he's just, he's quirky. Yeah. Nicholas Cage is for sure quirky. Yeah. And you gotta love him, cause he really puts himself out there, and he really is just, I mean, there's no one, there's no one like him, I don't think. But yeah, so, with that we thank you for joining us, and again, let us know if you have anything, and don't forget to follow us on Instagram, at Wicked Psychotherapist. Thanks. And on Facebook, we are The Wicked Psychotherapists. Don't forget to subscribe and follow wherever you listen to your podcasts.

erin:

find us wherever you listen to your podcast and if you can follow us, hit that follow button and also leave us a review as well. Yes.

tanya:

That really helps us out. And tell your friends. Absolutely. And don't forget, stay wicked. And keep your mind well. All right. Bye guys. We'll see you next

erin:

time. Okay. All right. Bye bye

We Wish You A Merry Christmas I don't know why I'm doing this.

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Erin

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Tanya Santos

Host